Work It Like A Mum
Work It Like A Mum
From Career Break to Comeback: Reena Sareen-Rattan's Advice on Job Hunting and Reclaiming Your Professional Identity
In today's fast-paced, ever-evolving professional landscape, juggling the demands of parenthood can seem like an insurmountable challenge. But our guest, Reena Sareen-Rattan, a marketing veteran with over 15 years of experience, is here to show you that it's possible to have it all.
Reena's journey is a testament to the power of perseverance and adaptability. She's faced the challenges of balancing family life with demanding work schedules, navigated the ever-changing marketing landscape, and emerged stronger and more focused than ever. In this episode, Reena shares her invaluable insights on achieving work-life balance and thriving in your career.
Uncover the secrets to:
- Balancing the demands of parenthood and a successful career
- Embracing workplace flexibility and support
- Staying ahead of the curve in the ever-changing world of marketing
- Navigating the challenges of job hunting post-career break
- Leveraging workplace culture to your advantage
- Understanding the implications of returning to a full-time office for employees seeking flexible work arrangements
Join us as we delve into Reena's inspiring story and discover strategies to empower YOU to navigate the professional maze and achieve your career goals.
Are you a working parent or job seeker who wants to achieve professional success without sacrificing your personal life? This episode is a must-listen! Subscribe to our podcast today and gain the invaluable insights you need to thrive in the modern workplace.
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Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community. In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, the mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
Elizabeth Willetts:This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast. This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women. Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries. Ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
Elizabeth Willetts:Now back to the show. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast. Today I'm delighted because I'm going to be chatting with Reena Serene Raton and we're going to be talking all about her experiences of looking for a job after a career break. Also how her career has shifted since she's had children, and her experience of marketing as well, and how it has changed during her 15-year career. We're talking about the rise of social media and AI in marketing as well, and what it means for consumers and for people that work in the marketing industry. Thank you so much, reena, for joining me today. It's such a pleasure to chat with you and obviously learn more about your experiences and your viewpoint as well.
Reena:Thank you, Liz, and thank you for having me.
Elizabeth Willetts:No, it's an absolute pleasure. So I know that you are very, very passionate about how workplaces can support working parents. How did you know you'd work change after having children? Did it change? And if it did you know what sort of support would have been important to you?
Reena:I've been really lucky, if I'm honest, when I've got two children. So I'll start with that, my daughter. I had actually pre-COVID and I was able to work flexibly before COVID. So what I was doing I was doing three days in the office, two days from home. The days I was working in the office I was working flexibly, first one in the office and first one to leave. But I was really lucky that I had a very supportive manager and it was a very supportive culture for working parents. So I guess that guilt of oh, everybody's looking, they're hard at work and I'm getting my coat and bag to leave, you know it wasn't that much and, as we know, covid sort of changed everything. You know a lot of working parents, you know, love the flexibility that COVID brought. But we've slowly obviously started to shift away from that, which is what I've seen myself. A lot of employers are asking people to come into the office now for more days in the week.
Reena:But most recently again, the company I worked for had a very supportive culture for working parents. I had a very supportive manager. My children were sick, nursery, safe 48 hours until a child can come back. What do you do? You have to, you know, prioritise your child, but again, having that supportive manager to say, your children come first and we make work, work around your children, that just worked really well. You know, for me I'm very, very grateful for that. But I have heard, you know, seen and heard stories where some parents don't have that. So you know, for me it's all about supportive manager, supportive culture at work, and I've been in like leadership position and I have that with my team as well. That you've got children. I absolutely get it. They come first and make work around your children, yeah.
Elizabeth Willetts:So obviously you highlighted that as one aspect of being a supportive manager. How else do you think can managers support working parents in their team?
Reena:So I think just being really open with, I guess, like even meeting times, you know, sometimes people have to leave a certain time. So I think just being understanding and just being very transparent to say you know, these are, I think like core hours, for example, and saying these are the core hours and meeting outside of that, let's try. If we can avoid them, let's try and avoid them. So I think that could be. That's something I've experienced, that's worked really well and I think that's something more employees should do for working parents.
Elizabeth Willetts:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you talk to the world about you know you've noticed a shift of workplaces, need to go back to the office and that sort of cultural flexibility that we, you know we start to enjoy after COVID, is slowly disappearing. As a working parent, you know what was your experience like, I guess, looking for a role. And if a role didn't mention flexibility, if it didn't offer flexibility, did it put you off?
Reena:Yeah, if I'm being transparent 100%. And actually one of the first questions I asked the hiring manager or the HR manager or the recruiter that I'd speak to is I want to be transparent. I need to understand what's the expectation here. Hybrid working means different things for different employers, right. So it's having that transparency. Some employees are great and they say we want you, we expect you, to be in the office two days a week. Some don't. So for me, I was very transparent that this is a deal breaking for me and this is what I can commit to, and that you know people could argue that's me being selfish, but it's not. That's me putting my children first and saying that I can only commit to X amount of days. If there's flexibility on that, great, let's keep talking. If there's not, then unfortunately I don't want to waste your time. I'm going to take a step back from this.
Elizabeth Willetts:Yeah, why is flexibility, do you think so important to you now you've become a working parent?
Reena:I mean my kids come first, right. So I think in first world logistics you've got to manage drop off, pickups, right. But then there's the second layer of when they've got Christmas show or they've got trips or something. You know I want to be there. You know I kind of think back to.
Reena:You know, when I was at school and my parents couldn't come to certain events, I really sort of I miss not having them there. So you know I don't want to waste my time that for my children and you know I want them to look forward to where's my mommy in the audience. You know I want that. So it's flexibility is massively important and I think it's having that trust as well, because I think where parents bring such a strong skill set right, you know, from being a parent and all of those, I mean the main thing for me time management. If you can prove and if you have that trust from your manager and from your team that I'm still gonna do my job, and if it means I attend this thing with my child, come back and finish up one day, and then you know everyone's a winner, yeah absolutely so.
Elizabeth Willetts:You've been on a career break for a few months. You want to talk to your experience of being on a career break and then looking for a new job.
Reena:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I've been on career break for about two and a half months. I wanted to take some downtime, actually times really well with my daughter starting school yes, I was like a while I kind of be around for that and she just started year one. So is a bit of a transition from reception to you wanna want it to kind of be close to base. I originally thought to myself I would take a couple of weeks out. I actually kick started my job search prior to the beginning of september, but what I found, as I mentioned, a lot of employers are now asking People to come into the office three, four, five days a week. So where my application would maybe filter through and I have that conversation, they would say, right, okay, you're right to come in four days a week, and I'd be like I'm really sorry now I can't see any flexibility on that. No, there isn't okay. Thank you for your time. I'm gonna move on. So I've actually had a lot of closed doors because of that.
Reena:I mentioned hybrid working Really very for different employers. So it has, I think, even for me. When I'd I'd look at maybe ten jobs I've got live, on the monday I'd actually just be looking at two, because I have ten. We're actually saying we need you on site five days a week, so straight away I would have to filter out again when I apply to two. And if I was successful in having a conversation with the hiring manager, you know it's kind of them. What happens is that conversation around how often do you need me in the office? And again, that's not me saying that I'm not committed. I absolutely wanna nail whatever role I land. That's me saying what's? I'm here to work. I'm also a mom and I need to get that balance and just been transparent from day one.
Elizabeth Willetts:Why do you think there's been a shift over the past few months of employers wanting people back into the office?
Reena:really good question is I just I think there's a mixed bag, if I'm honest. I think I'm hearing stories and well, I've seen in the news and reading on linkedin that a lot of I guess, like senior level leaders are asking people to come into the office because they think People are more productive in that physical space. Right, and they're saying, well, the reason why we work in flexibly was because of covid, and that's now in the past, let's go back to pre covid, right. And then there's some people saying we've never invested x amount in a brilliant, lovely office space. So they obviously wanna say, well, why are you not making use of that? And I absolutely get both of those.
Reena:But they still some companies who are saying we're remote first, all we offer the hybrid and remote working, because you know, we've seen that people can be just a productive. But actually we want that balance to now shift where it was Two days in the office, three days from home, to the other way now. So I even saw, like an article, I think, a couple of weeks ago, to say by twenty twenty six, some Employers are predicting that people gonna be Five days a week in the office. And I mean I don't want to think too much into the future, because I'm still a bit of your life right here, right now, but I'm thinking. But is that true? Doesn't make you think. Is that what's gonna happen?
Elizabeth Willetts:It's crazy. I mean I guess some employers were five days in the office prior covid and like yours, and to prepare mine, we did have hybrid working before we even know that we never actually use to call it. I've been working so it wasn't even a thing. What we did use to work for a home, like one or two days a week, and this was way before covid and it was really nice. You know, I'm always been as productive, if not more productive, on this work from home days and I'm the same thing.
Reena:I'm exactly the same and I think back to before I had my daughter. I was, you know, up until two weeks before I gave birth I was doing five days in the office, you know to muting like a pack train and my father try to live in like summer, so getting on like a hot train and like all turn pregnancy. And now I think back and, yeah, it's crazy. But then I think again it's one of those. I think this theory does vary by employer and how the type of culture they want to create and I hate to say it, I think also it's the trust they have in their team to see if you can be just as productive with that balance. But we just have to see, because I think this is a shift. I've seen this half of the year. I don't think this was there at the first half of the year.
Elizabeth Willetts:A lot of it depends on who they employ, because when I speak five days a week in the office and I know they have to do something on that five days a week in the office, yeah, it's a criminal agency. It employs a lot of fresh graduates. Yes, they need that training, whereas when I was in Big Four they were hybrid. It was more mature, makes it sound like there's a lot older, but the people it was a different sort of caliber of people. People were a lot wide age range, it was still a high performance sort of environment and the expectations were still high. But I guess it was that trust. They spent a lot of time on their recruitment, hiring the right people, and then they did seem to have that trust in them from sort of day dot. And I think that the time you spend hiring the right people means that you can then have a nice culture. Then that works rather than firing and firing Quick, quick, quick Then always going to be hard to have a good culture.
Reena:This is it, and I think also where I've had conversations with people you know, say to me, Irina, how's your job search going? And I could sort of update them. And they're like well, there's loads of jobs that are remote and there's loads of jobs where people are saying you can work from home. And it's not as black and white as that, because it really depends on what role it is, what level it is what industry you're working in.
Reena:It's top level. Yes, that you've got to look at those layers that go into that, right? So, yes, there are. But can I just go and apply to be I don't know an administrator which is 100% remote? Potentially I could, but that's not something I feel passionately about. So it's getting that balance, isn't it? Irina?
Elizabeth Willetts:Gowdy. Yeah, absolutely, I'll make you sure you find something that's right for you. So we talked about how the world works. It's changing. It's always for the best, always for the the worst. Talk to me about because I love marketing and I've got so into marketing since running my business and yeah, I love it. I'm like if I had a good recruitment I would have definitely done marketing. Yeah, so how has it changed? You've been in it a long time now, for the last 18 years. How has it changed during that time? And how's that focus on the consumer changed?
Reena:It's really changed and obviously, as we've kind of moved towards a more technology focused world into more of a digital era, marketing has changed. Marketing has gone with that trend. So, whereas it used to be all around direct mail and email, you know, slowly, slowly building its presence, we're now moving into a world where there's more channels, there's more touch points to customers, right? So we're looking at social media, we're looking at what customers are doing online and they've been on whatever website they're looking at, and SMS is being used, whatsapp is being used, tiktok and all these other channels to, I guess, yeah, push those marketing messages through to the consumer. And yeah, I think for me it's just understanding what channel is right for what customer.
Reena:So I mean, for me, I love a direct mail coming in. You know I do, because you don't get as many, do you anymore? No, you don't. But I actually think some of them are like really good and I love putting it on my fridge as like a little reminder to be. Oh yeah, next time I go here I'm going to use this SMS for me as a consumer. I love an SMS to say your order is on its way, but if I get an SMS, that's as a marketing piece of communication, sometimes a bit like I'm not sure if that's for me, so SMS for me can be a bit of a question mark. But I absolutely love where brands can really have a seamless journey for customers across multiple touch points. What's a seamless?
Elizabeth Willetts:journey look like then? So if you were a big brand, what would a seamless journey look like?
Reena:For me it would be like if I see, if you send me an email to say I don't know, like, get x% off your next purchase, right? If I then open up Facebook and you hit me with the same message and not something different. So it doesn't matter what channel I go on, you know it's me looking at that and your but is that those cookies? Then that followed you about and it's but it's also if they can recognize you through your email address.
Elizabeth Willetts:If it's the same, yeah, but I suppose some people might not like that. Some people listen to think they think that's a massive invasion of vibrancy. You know I've had an email. How do they know all about me?
Reena:You're right, Some customers could. But some customers could be like, oh you know, this could be like attempt number three. And then they're like actually, do you know what? You hit me with that message a couple of times. I'm actually going to convert and I'm going to take up that offer because I keep seeing it and it's front of mine, Because it doesn't matter what touch point you have with that brand, they're telling you the same message. But again, I think sometimes you'll see something on social media and you're just like I can't get it. But I'm not here to shop, I'm here to see what my friends are doing or something. So social media might not be the right channel for you, but if somebody wants to get an SMS, for example, and they're more responsive to that channel, you'll be like okay, that's the best channel for them, Because I know that every time we hit that customer with their SMS, they always convert.
Elizabeth Willetts:Is that, I guess, knowing your customers and knowing that everyone's individual.
Reena:Yes, do you know what? That's a really good way to summarize it. I think marketing has really shifted to customer level targeting. Rather than saying let's send everybody an email, let's send everybody an SMS. It's understanding what's the right channel for what customer.
Elizabeth Willetts:They saw their previous sort of pitch, what they previously, how they previously purchased.
Reena:Purchased and responded, yeah, and constantly learning, and I think that's where technology sort of going is having that real time view of customers, their shopping, and also we're moving into a world where it's about predictions as well and saying the amount of times that you'll see something to say you shop this, you might like this. It's kind of like pushing them into that we predict they'll buy into this. So, yeah, I just think it's a really exciting time and, yeah, just really enjoying learning and seeing all these great things that different brands are doing.
Elizabeth Willetts:How are you monitoring that? Then I mean obviously big companies. How are big companies, I guess, monitoring that? I mean I guess they'll have every individual's purchase history. But is there monitoring and follow? Is it the cookies? How are they sort of following them around?
Reena:We are moving away from cookies, just generally. That it's understanding customers' responses to campaigns, for example, and having a view of that You'll have somebody you can keep sending them emails too, and then they'll open one in five or something. And you'll have some customers who you'll send an email to and they open each one and saying, well, actually this customer is really active on email and this customer isn't. So the technology's really advancing that sense that you can see for customers I mean not exactly like which one, but you can see, well, actually they've opened it or they've kicked it or they've done nothing and it's aggregating that data and understanding how can I utilize this to now optimize my future activity based on what these different clusters of customers have done?
Elizabeth Willetts:Wow, and how is AI feeding into all that? We've touched on AI before we hit record.
Reena:Yeah. So AI really, I think, is really becoming a big part in terms of communication. So it's feeding into what a subject line should be, it's feeding into what content should be featured in certain communications, but also that predictive element as well, to say, well, here's where the customers are. This is when, for example, I think, this customer will shop next, based on some brilliant analytical or data science work that's gone into it. That's very, very smart people who sort of feed into that. So that's where it's really an exciting space and that's where it's going into Wow.
Elizabeth Willetts:Exciting and as a consumer as well. How do the AI is going to benefit consumers?
Reena:I think, do you know what? The key thing is? Personalization and relevancy in terms of comms. So I think, rather than just being one of however many to say they're receiving the same message is actually this is for me and I can. This is absolutely to my price point, it's talking about products I like, it's talking about an offer that's really strong for me and actually it's landed in my inbox or landed in my mailbox at the right time. So I think it's been more relevant and more timely with the communications.
Elizabeth Willetts:Brilliant. And I know you've recently found a job, haven't you? So what would you say to anyone else at job seeking at this time, maybe finding it a bit difficult? What would be your advice to them?
Reena:I'd say stick at it. I think you have times where you're a bit like oh, am I being too fussy or am I being too picky? But do you know what? I think you've got to believe in yourself that, whatever your criteria is, it is the right thing for you, and it's better to wait for the right thing than just sort of take the first thing that comes to you. That would be my advice Brilliant.
Elizabeth Willetts:And you saw, really enjoyed this conversation. Where can they connect with you on LinkedIn? Can they learn more about you and your experiences?
Reena:Yeah, absolutely so. I'm on LinkedIn and you're more than welcome to sort of post a link to my profile and happy to have a chat with anybody who would like to know more or just generally as a working parent and you just want to connect? Yeah, happy to have a chat Brilliant.
Elizabeth Willetts:Well, thank you so much, rita, for joining me today. It's such a pleasure to chat with you.
Reena:Thank you for having me, liz, and it's been a pleasure as well.
Elizabeth Willetts:Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like a Mon podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.