Work It Like A Mum
Work It Like A Mum
From Stigma to Strength: Empowering Women to Thrive in Their 40s and Beyond
Have you ever wondered how to embrace the changes of menopause while finding joy and empowerment in this new chapter of life? Or sought advice on how to boost your confidence during pre-menopause, menopause, and beyond?
In this episode, we sit down with Wilma MacDonald, a passionate nutritionist specialising in health and nutrition for women transitioning through menopause. Wilma offers insightful strategies to help women experience their 40s and 50s as some of the most fulfilling decades of their lives.
What We Cover:
- Changing the Narrative Around Menopause: Wilma discusses the prevalent negative perceptions of menopause and shares her mission to empower women to redefine their experience.
- Navigating Your Health Journey: Learn how to tune into your body’s needs by tracking energy levels, sleep patterns, and dietary habits to manage menopause effectively.
- Empowerment Through Nutrition: Wilma emphasises the importance of nutrition and lifestyle choices that can alleviate symptoms and enhance overall well-being.
- The Impact of Stress and Movement: Discover how managing stress and incorporating movement can significantly influence menopausal symptoms and energy levels.
- Embracing Your Fabulous 40s and Beyond: Wilma shares her philosophy on how women can not only survive but thrive during and after menopause, unlocking newfound confidence and joy.
Why You Should Listen:
Whether you are approaching menopause, currently navigating it, or post-menopausal, this episode is filled with valuable insights and practical advice. Wilma’s compassionate approach to discussing menopause aims to break the stigma and help women reclaim their vitality and confidence.
Connect with Wilma MacDonald on LinkedIn
Website - Wilma Macdonald Nutrition
Connect with our host, Elizabeth Willetts, on LinkedIn
Listen now for an empowering conversation on embracing menopause as a time for joy, self-discovery, and renewed confidence.
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Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast. I am delighted because I'm chatting with nutritionist Wilma McDonald. Wilma specialises in offering health, wellbeing and nutrition advice to women that are pre and post menopause, and today we are going to be chatting all about how you can get more joy, fun, pleasure and power and, ultimately, more confidence, if you are about to go through menopause, are currently going through menopause or post-menopausal, and how you can have literally the best decades of your life in your 40s and 50s.
Speaker 2:Thank, you so much, wilmama. Thank you for having me. I love that intro. Oh, brilliant thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm really, you know, as somebody that is fast approaching 40 and often thinks I think I'm pre-menopausal half the time I'm like so excited for this conversation and I think you know we are.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's funny because I'm now approaching my mid-40s and I think we're told I always remember this episode of Sex and the City and it went. It was about and they were like doing this interview with Carrie and it was of like 30 and fabulous it was she got. She got told it was being called 30 and fabulous. All right, it would be 30 and fabulous.
Speaker 2:She got told it was being called 30 and fabulous, all right, and it's going to be 30 and fabulous exclamation mark. And then when they actually went live, it was 30 and fabulous question mark. And I always think of that when we think about our 40s. We're always told you know, like our fabulous 40s, it's going to be the best decade of our life. But is it a question mark or is it an exclamation mark? Because I think we have such. There's so much now in the media about menopause and how awful it is and how we're going to struggle, and it can sometimes put some fear into.
Speaker 1:I think it's made me quite frightened, because, yeah, no, do you and I mean all I can, I mean, obviously, somebody that hasn't gone through it yet. Sometimes I wonder, I don't know. It's good to talk about it, but, like, everyone's experience is different and you know, I had IVF to have my children. I remember reading about it and thinking, oh my gosh, it sounds horrendous. And then when I actually went through it I found it okay. And so I guess it is that everyone's experience is different, but it's good to talk, yeah, and I think that's a key thing.
Speaker 2:It's like it's good that we are talking more about, you know, women transitioning into different life stages and perimenopause and menopause and postmenopause and all that kind of stuff. And what I find is that many of us are getting the stages kind of all like there's lots of overlap. Yeah, so I had my son when I was 38 and I'm pretty sure now, looking back, that I was like straight from postpartum into perimenopause. When I look and kind of like you know, hindsight's a great thing, and I feel like there I'm definitely perimenopausal, absolutely without a doubt. Um, is it awful? No, but there is a lot that is changes and I'm not like let's go, I'm menopausal.
Speaker 2:I'm a bit nervous about it as well because, like you, do read these kind of awful things and it's like it's almost like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, for it to get awful. But then I'm kind of thinking, right, I'm doing all these things that I can to support myself, but is it enough? And blah, blah, blah. So I, yes, I like that the conversation is happening, but almost like I want to hear from women on the other side who are telling you know, can you can talk to her experience of what was like, because sometimes, like I say, it is nerve-wracking. It's gonna. Is it going to get awful? Is it going to be bad? Am I going to like lose my mind, is it?
Speaker 2:you know when am I suddenly going to get anxious, you know, really anxious, and it's like it can be so life limiting for so many people that, yeah, conversation is needed, but we need solutions as well, and that's kind of probably some balance, don't you?
Speaker 1:because I think the loudest voices are the ones that have not pounded.
Speaker 2:Of course it is that you know everything like when you think of anything like bad news moves faster than good news, always and regardless of what media we're looking at. So of course you know hit like drastic headlines about menopausal women are going to travel faster than yeah. It was great and I feel more powerful than ever. That's not exciting yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So why are you so passionate about supporting women during this transition?
Speaker 2:oh, because I feel that I'm. I remember attending this thing a few years ago and I wasn't I can't remember I might just be 40, might have been quite a long time ago and it was for women over 40 and they were talking. The women who were leading it were a bit older than me and they were basically talking about how I was going to become invisible. Nobody's going to want to hire me, nobody's going to hang out with me. I was going to get ignored in bars and restaurants because waiters weren't going to see me. And you know I want to. I'll want to have a facelift or inject things into my face, and I shouldn't, because I had to age a certain way and not to dye my hair. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like I don't like this conversation the way.
Speaker 1:It's very depressing it was very depressing and I was just like.
Speaker 2:This doesn't feel very, uh, supportive and strong to me and as somebody. I mean I'm 45 and I have a seven-year-old, so I'm not empty nesting or anything. I'm in the midst of parenthood and I there was such a narrative around parenthood as well becoming a mother, how my needs didn't matter anymore. I was all about the small human, how I had to give myself up for everything that he wanted and I was going to lose myself, blah, blah, blah. You know it's all that talk about motherhood as well, and I was like it just doesn't stop. It's this constant thing to women. It's hammering in all the time that our needs don't matter. It's basically you need to be this, you need to be this person and don't you dare stand up for yourself, don't advocate for yourself, don't demand better for yourself and don't put yourself on the priority list. And it was all this kind of just negativity around how, basically, to keep a small and inert place, and I was getting just did not like the whole narrative.
Speaker 2:I did, and it was something I kind of I think I probably fell into in my 30s about kind of behaving a certain way because I was in a certain role and doing certain things and then I realized that it was really boring and it wasn't who I wanted to be and I wasn't attracting the kind of people I wanted to hang out with or be friends with or work with, just because I was being this half person. And then it's kind of true, like once you get to your 40s you're a bit kind of like yeah, I might like to swear I was a bit kind of like fuck this. Basically it's kind of like hang on a second, it's good, like I have a best friend who didn't make it to her 40s. I have in my 40s and I'm going to be fabulous at exclamation mark and I want as many people women to come with me, because when women are feel good and feel in control of themselves, amazing things happen and it's kind of like a ripple effect out the way. And part of me is like I guess I want to support individual women, but I also want to have some impact on closing the gender health gap, which is massive, especially in the UK, and you know we suffer unnecessarily for so long that we just accept it just the way it is.
Speaker 2:So that phrase does not exist in my world. It's never just the way it is, we never settle, we never accept that we're going to feel crap and last and their needs don't matter. You know, we include ourselves. It's not about shoving everybody else to the side. It's about including ourselves somewhere in the priority list and understanding that by shutting down our needs they don't go away, they actually just fester and, you know, are just always there but we'd ignore them and they just kind of like chip chip away at us until they're shouting at us.
Speaker 2:And I think that's sometimes what menopausal symptoms are, or postpartum symptoms, is our body kind of shouting at us as to what it needs, and because we're so used to, because nobody's's ever taught us to, to listen and to tune in, then we're not listening until it gets really really bad. And I was there as well. I didn't listen until things got really really bad for me when I was in my 30s and I had to teach myself as to how to tune in, how to interpret and how to put together the jigsaw of my health. And that's the big thing that I give women and that's part of the biggest feedback I get is that I've helped women to learn to listen to what their body is telling them and figure out what it needs, and then actually they know what to do for themselves yeah and they can.
Speaker 2:You know they can self-regulate, they can um change. You know they can tweak and change and suddenly you know they're feeling much better.
Speaker 1:So it's all about learning to listen, tune in, interpret and then take action from there so if someone's listening to this and they want to, I know obviously it'd be so much better to do it with you, but if they um wanted some ideas on how they could tune in and listen. What are some of the things?
Speaker 2:so, if so, what I? So my big thing is energy. So if you're feeling tired, like, track it over a day or track it over a week, see what. You can see patterns when you're feeling your lowest, when you're feeling your best, so you can see. Then you can track how your energy is moving. And then, what have you been doing in the run-up to that? So how much sleep were you getting? What did you eat and what much? You know, how much caffeine did you have? Have you been drinking water? How much movement?
Speaker 2:So, kind of look at your lifestyle and try and see, is there a pattern that matches to how your energy is feeling? And also one thing that you know I've talked, we've talked about this before. It's kind of like, look at your bowel movements and how, like how often, are you going and what have you been eating, what have you been drinking? So it's all there is. There will be little, there will be patterns, and it's just kind of tuning in and learning to look at these patterns. And it does take a bit of practice and it does take a bit of acknowledgement, being kind of like okay, it's three o'clock, I'm tired.
Speaker 2:Oh, yesterday I was knackered and used a nap at this point in time and the same yesterday. So if you're seeing a pattern, okay, I'm tired at three o'clock in the afternoon. What did I have for breakfast and lunch? What have I been drinking? Have I moved? Have I had some daylight on my face? Am I stressed that kind of thing? It's kind of like all these kind of patterns and it's all. It feels a lot. There's a big overlap and then you will soon start seeing the patterns. They'll start becoming apparent and you know we, although I'm big into kind of eating and drinking, we can't ignore the stress and the movement part of it as well.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is maybe coming from an ignorance perspective, but is it not a given that our energy is lower during menopause and that our sleep is affected and we might get night sweats and therefore not sleep?
Speaker 2:I mean, is that a given, and are we doing anything to help ourselves at that point in time? Is there anything you know? Are we having a glass of wine to wind down in the afternoon, in the evening, in the afternoon?
Speaker 2:in the evening, you know exactly are you because alcohol as we eat, you know, once we get older, our metabolism is impacted, so we takes as long to break down alcohol, and what a lot of women find is that as they go through perimenopause, menopause, that impacted more by alcohol and it slows the system down and it can have a huge impact on your sleep. So, and so that is one aspect about the sleep. And then what have you eaten? Blood sugar balancing a huge impact on your sleep as well. So, like, the hormones will obviously have an impact on sleep, but it's kind of like, what else can you do around that that can support yourself and what else can you do?
Speaker 2:What I say is what you have, some, what I call controllables within your remit of control. So what can we do to control the controllables? Like that, in menopause, in perimenopause, menopause, the hormones are changing. There's, you know, that is just we are getting older. That is just what happens, how they fluctuate, how the impact babies, woman to woman, and what we need support wise babies, woman to woman. But there is some standard stuff that we can do that will help and support you, maybe alongside HRT intervention, but there's always stuff that we can control that we need to look at as well, and that's kind of like how you're sleeping, how you're sleeping, how you're eating, what you're drinking, how you're moving and how your stress management is, and that will have an impact.
Speaker 2:Will it solve everything? Maybe, don't know. Everybody's impact is different. Some women don't. We don't respond well to HRT. Some people change their lives. So it's kind of like just finding the right cocktail of things that work for you. But looking at the basics, it's the boring basics, unfortunately, that we're kind of like we want something, we want something sleek and sexy to make a difference, but actually it's the really boring basic stuff that will fundamentally make a difference to how you're feeling what's your view on HRC?
Speaker 2:I'm like, if you want it, go and take it, but find somebody who understands exactly what you need. And I want people to take the bioidentical ones and it's. It's not like you're not going to slap a patch on and suddenly life is going to be fabulous. Yeah, it can, because your hormones are so fluctuating. It's going to take a while to find out what combination you need and what actually works and what doesn't, and it's having that patience and having somebody on your side that knows what they're doing, I think is the biggest thing. So I am not. I always.
Speaker 2:I'm very clear to everybody. I am not an alternative therapist, I am a complementary therapist. I like to work alongside medical professionals. I see my doctor once a year, at least once a year for an annual check. But she knows what I do and she's very you know, I'm very clear into what I want to check every year. Um and I I send women. Every time somebody comes to me, the first thing I do is you send them to the doctor to get some blood tests done. I think that I don't think this is not. Nutrition is not an alternative to hrt. It can. It's working alongside it and, if you want, some people don't want to take hrt. Some people I was gonna say.
Speaker 1:That was my question. Is there any like natural alternatives? You know I remember this is like random. You know you mentioned sex in the city. I'm sure I remember the film or an advert or something um an episode where they were yams yeah, that was yams and hummus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's nothing natural. So, in my limited HRT um medical I'm not a medical professional do I think eating lots of sweet potato, yams and hummus is going to give the same impact of hrt? Probably not, because I think the quantity you'd have to eat would be quite significant. And it's all about if it goes, because the thing with um hrt is you're patching, you're bypassing the digestive system so you're not having to assimilate it from there. It's going straight into the bloodstream. I guess in the digestive system it would, maybe, but it's like what? How is your digestive system? Are you going to absorb and get everything to where it needs to be? So it's got another barrier there. So, yes, there is things like phytoestrogens that mimic the um, mimic the work of estrogen in the body, but it's nowhere near as strong as the estrogen we get from our ovaries.
Speaker 2:There's just not other parts of our bodies like. So our adrenal glands and fat cells produce different types of oestrogen as well, but again, they're not as strong as the oestrogen produced by the ovaries. And if you're stressed out, your adrenal glands are going to be producing cortisol and all that kind of stuff instead of oestrogen. So that's why we kind of need to manage the stress aspect. So, yes, there's five oestrogens we can take that will mimic the impacts of oestrogen. Do I think it's the same strength? No, do I think it'll work for some people? Yes, do I think some people need hrt? Absolutely I'm. I'm completely open to taking hrt if I think I need it in the future.
Speaker 2:I'm not great with hormones. I haven't taken a contraceptive pill since I was in my 20s because I'm not very level-headed when I mess with my hormones. So that's what makes me nervous about taking HRT. But that's my personal thing. But if I think, if I'm doing everything I possibly can, if I'm controlling the controllables and I'm still not feeling great, I'll be straight down there to. Well, you look great.
Speaker 1:You look fabulous if I release a dip in this video, you'll see. Well, she looks amazing um, so.
Speaker 2:But so I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm trying to do all the things. I'm drinking my water, I'm drinking my fiber protein, fat and fiber.
Speaker 1:I have started strength training, so I was going to say is there anything different? Because I know you've been doing this for a long time now. You know you, yeah, um, you know you're obviously all the nutritional rights. I've taken every bit on board and I definitely have less tea. I'm more about my energy. I'm always drinking more water, always thinking but is there now something different?
Speaker 2:you're doing as you're like approaching menopause so yeah, so I think the main thing I'm doing is I'm not doing as much um highensity exercise as I would have been in the past. Okay, and why is that so? High-intensity exercise can be an additional stress on the body and when your metabolism and your hormones shift, then it kind of almost depletes you more than revives you, almost depletes you more than revives you. So we want to be looking more into building muscle to support our body through it.
Speaker 2:so support especially joints and everything, yeah, your bones and everything weight building, exercise and building muscle rather than losing. So we've been like women have been told for so long that it's all about losing weight and moving more and eating less, and every single person that's through my practice none of them have been eating enough to sustain the level of life that they want. And it's same through menopause. It's like we are still trying to change how our body feels and looks by eating less and moving more, and what we actually need to be doing is eating more protein, fat and fiber and lifting more weights, rather than running on the treadmill or doing high intensity exercise classes. And I've recently just joined a gym close by and I read the descriptions of the classes and I'm like, oh my god, please stop. And it's all about, like, high intensity, burning fat. And, yes, that has its place, it needs to be short and sharp, um, but we need to be building the muscles.
Speaker 2:So I think in what I've been doing more so in since I've kind of become kind of going through that phase is, yeah, the less of the high intensity exercise. Yes, I still do boxing twice a week. Um, that's my part of my stress relief, um, but I'm moving more into lifting heavy weights and I am I don't know I'm more aware of what I'm eating and how I'm eating. I do find that if I'm not doing like the whole protein, fat and fiber thing, that the headaches I get in the run-up to my period to kind of get out of control, so that's my feedback mechanism, that I'm kind of to my period kind of get out of control, so that's my feedback mechanism, that I'm kind of listening to is kind of okay. So I've got the headaches.
Speaker 1:Why do those headaches, you know?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, like I only started them after a small human. Yes, you did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't drink. I started them when I started this business. I only get them around my period, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I only get them around my period though. Yeah, so it that it's that it's a drop in estrogen that is?
Speaker 1:I told you I was like pre-menopausal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So it's like it's the that, because when I breastfed my small human for two years I didn't know how to stop and then I remember I had a really, really sore head. I couldn't figure out what was going on because I was like I've never had a headache like this and then I had my first period in like two and a half years afterwards, like okay, this explains it. And if I don't especially drinking the water, the moving and the protein, fat and fiber, if I don't do that, I find my headaches are really really bad. So last week my headache was really bad and, yeah, the stress management is a big thing for me as well.
Speaker 2:So there's certain patterns you will notice and the drop in oestrogen can be some. So I used to, so I track my cycle so I know when it's meant to be. It's a bit more fluctuating at the moment. So in the run up to the week of my period I try and have a miso soup, so that's soy based. So phytoestrogen and sometimes that um support oestrogen levels enough that I don't get that really bad headache in the run-up to my period. So there's sometimes little tweaks that that we can do. That'll, that'll help yeah, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah also. I mean this is, you know, like as I'm getting older, I'm definitely finding it's so much harder to shift weight around my tummy and you see, like middle-aged women don't you and they do seem to carry it around their tummy yeah, and that's, and that it's like it's the, the very nice way of seeing the middle-aged spread.
Speaker 2:That is all kind of um, and part of that is the change in the hormones, how our body kind of then distributes fat. Um, stress, huge impact, cortisol it'll put, it'll lay it around our middle. So it's then and that's when we suddenly start eating less and like doing more cardio and what we actually need to be doing is eating more stuff that fills us up and more weight-bearing exercise and things like pilates, like really stretching and supporting the core, because what I noticed is, after small human, I'm really quite petite and I my back, I was massive. When I was pregnant, really, I had a really big bump, um, so my core took quite a big hit when I was pregnant and then building that up postpartum and then perimenopause is like a big thing, because then you just hold yourself different, supporting your core, supporting your back.
Speaker 2:All that kind of stuff is so important and, again, it's low impact but it kind of has this effect of just kind of building us up as well. So it's all kind of moving away from that eating less, because that it just doesn't work. When we're perimenopausal or heading towards the menopause. It's kind of doing the right things in the right quantities to support ourselves and that's kind of just give us. It's a big mindset. It's a big mindset shift because we've been told for years, decades well, that's how we've been marketed to, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's like skinny, skinny food yeah, and the thing is skinny milk, whatever.
Speaker 2:Oh god, it drives me nuts oh, special k diet, marketed by kellogg's um, and like I see it when my son's, when he gets, he gets a pack of fried from school and it's like low fat, it's like zero fat yogurt and I've been like it's full of sugar instead. So it's kind of it's about yeah, it's we've all been, we've been taught about, but it's also been accepting that our body is going to change. Yes, like a we've. You know we've had children. For those who had children, so we've had children. So it's probably, you know, we can never go back to what it was like before, but doesn't mean it can't be better, it can't be stronger and it can't help us move into our golden years feeling strong and feeling vital and not thinking. You know, we're just sliding down to our funeral and it's going to be downhill from here on.
Speaker 2:I bet somebody wants. Somebody said, and I was like that's it. It's like I want to do old age well and that's kind of one of my big motivations for myself and for my clients I want you to do now well, but I also want you to do old age well so that you can do all the things that you want to do, because I have so many family members who hit retirement and then like couldn't do any of the things they wanted to do because they were too ill, they died, or just like life, you know, like health issues got in the way and it's been like, what can we do? How can we like? See, I'll say this again how can we?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it's like a pension, isn't it in a weird way, health pension?
Speaker 2:you're putting money in now but that's and that's the kind of thing I was talking about when I was talking about perimenopause and I had a client who's in her 30s. She was like I don't want to talk about it. I'm kind of like but you're saving for your pension now, like you're putting money aside every time you get paid for your old age. So it's kind of like we need to look at our health now. What can we do to support it now? But it's also kind of putting away stuff. So it's helped. You know, we're as good as we can be in our old age.
Speaker 1:So yeah, there's a great way of putting it so tell us how you work with people, because I'm sure it's great so I have a three-month program at the moment.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm going through a bit of a transition at the moment, but the program is still there, so I'm able to buy, so I work. It's not three months, it's six months. Even oh, my god, excuse that it's six months. So it's six month program and that's based on feedback from clients that this is the best amount of time to create change, embed change and it's all about.
Speaker 2:It's funny because I used to work in finance for 10-12 years and I used to work in these big transformation programs, help setting up banks and all that kind of stuff, and I kind of use the same kind of framework which I always didn't think I'd ever use. But it's about taking your big goal and breaking it down to small, manageable, everyday steps that'll get you from where you are to where you want to be, without it taking over your life, without causing any more overwhelm, and me providing support, accountability and helping you kind of see your patterns put together, the jigsaw, and making sure that you have everything that you need when we're working together and when we finish, so that you can manage whatever health things come your way, and that, yes, that you do old age well how can people find you and connect?
Speaker 2:with you. So I am margaret motherhood on instagram and on linkedin and my website is margaretmotherhoodco, and I also have, um a newsletter I send out most fridays called the wing woman, where I kind of tell stories, give advice, share things that I think will make a difference. Um, and I'm always open to asking any questions. What's open to questions whatsoever. You know, never feel that you can't, just because you don't pay me that you can't ask a question. Please feel free to ask. Dm me, email me with any questions about anything health related and I will get back to you we've done so many podcasts now, haven't we?
Speaker 1:so I'll try and link some in the show notes as well. Things, I think, on gut health.
Speaker 2:We've done things on energy, yeah, and we don't think about summer holidays. We're doing the back now. So how to stay healthy? Summer holidays yeah by the time this one comes out.
Speaker 1:You should, we'll probably. We'll put the link back up and you can listen harder.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, I'll be, and I'll probably be, probably almost finished, so we'll be heading back. So, yeah, so it's all. It's like, there's nothing, never, so what I want to never feel that you have to settle for, just like if you're feeling crappy. Never feel that this is just the way it is, that you have to settle and this is just it. Now that you're a woman of a certain age, or that you're a mom or whatever, there's always something that can be done. And you know, the statistic is that women spend 25% more of their lives in ill health than men do. So I'm very adamant. I do not want women living a 75% life. That is just not what we're here for at all.
Speaker 1:Wow, brilliant. Well, thank you so much, wilma, for joining me today. What great advice.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.