Work It Like A Mum
Work It Like A Mum
How to Balance Your Career With Motherhood
In this Work It Like a Mum episode, we’re delighted to chat with Emily Russell, Internal Recruitment Partner at Saint-Gobain. Emily, who specialises in recruiting engineers, shares her journey of balancing a full-time career with single motherhood. With two children—one preparing for his GCSEs and the other only three years old—Emily discusses how she manages the juggle and offers tips for other working mums.
We also dive into Emily’s career history and her transition into engineering recruitment, as well as some expert advice on how to make your CV stand out when applying for your dream role.
Key Topics Covered:
- Emily’s career path, from starting in administration to becoming a successful recruiter at Saint-Gobain.
- The role of a recruitment consultant and how it differs from in-house recruitment roles.
- The challenges of recruiting for male-dominated sectors like engineering and how Emily helps break down gender stereotypes.
- Tips for candidates on how to stand out in the recruitment process and the importance of applying for roles even when you don’t meet 100% of the criteria.
- The rise of hybrid working models, especially in light of the changes at companies like Boots, and how it impacts candidates and recruiters, particularly single parents.
Key Takeaways:
- Recruitment insights: A deep dive into what recruitment consultants do and how to find one that specialises in your field.
- Engineering recruitment: Emily shares how she got into engineering recruitment and why it’s crucial to get more women into STEM roles.
- Making your CV stand out: How to tailor your CV for the role and why it’s important to apply even if you don’t meet all of the listed criteria.
- Hybrid work flexibility: The changing landscape of work and how hybrid roles are key for working parents, particularly single mums.
Why You Should Listen:
This episode is a must-listen for any working parent, particularly single mums, looking for advice on balancing career and family life.
Whether you're looking for career advice, recruitment tips, or just some motivation to keep juggling it all, Emily’s story is full of inspiration!
Show Links:
Connect with our host, Elizabeth Willetts Here
Visit Saint-Gobain's Website Here
Connect with Emily on LinkedIn Here
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And here's your invite to our supportive and empowering Facebook Group, Work It Like a Mum - a supportive and safe networking community for professional working mothers. Our community is full of like-minded female professionals willing to offer support, advice or a friendly ear. See you there!
Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community. In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success. Shy away from the real talk? No way. Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays. This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast. This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women. Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity. Now back to the show.
Speaker 1:Hello, welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast. Today I am delighted to be chatting with Emily Russell, who is the internal recruitment partner at one of our favourite clients, sangaban, where she helps recruit engineers into their organisation. Emily is a single mum to two children, one who is 16 and just about to do his GCSEs, and the other one is three, and we're going to be talking today all about how Emily manages the juggle, so how she all her tips on how to manage single parenthood while maintaining a thriving a full-time career. And I'm going to be talking also about her career history, and I know that she'll probably give us some tips as well, working in recruitment, about how to make your CV stand out and get those dream roles as well. So thank you so much, emily, for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:It's great to meet you Lovely to meet you too, so have you always worked in recruitment?
Speaker 2:So I pretty much have. I went to university and did geography randomly because that's what I enjoyed doing at A-level and when I came home I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I did some temping and I was working for Pertemps and they had a temporary role come up within their branch because their branch administrator was going on holiday. So they asked me if I'd like to do that and I said yes and they really liked me. I like the environment and that's kind of how I fell into recruitment and I think I ended up staying there for eight years, yeah oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:You started off as an admin and then you moved into recruitment with them yes, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:I started as admin and then went into a payroll role, um, and then vacancy coordinator, recruitment coordinator, did a bit of recruitment consulting there as well, and so, yeah, a variety of roles there and that gave me a really good introduction into the world of recruitment.
Speaker 1:I think it'd be really helpful. Actually, while we're talking about recruitment and recruitment as a career, there's often like a misconception, I think, from candidates about what a recruitment consultant actually does, and it might be helpful just to clarify that and what a recruitment consultant's role is within an agency and how to, I guess, find a recruitment consultancy that you would work well with. Have you got any tips around?
Speaker 2:that, yeah, and for me I mean it's probably important to say that after sort of doing that for a little while that wasn't my preferred role within recruitment.
Speaker 2:I much prefer the service types of roles, but we can come on to that. So recruitment consultancy, I would say, involves business development, so you are reaching out to clients and trying to win business and then finding the right candidate to fit those roles, um. So obviously recruitment consultancy is a bit different in that you are more likely than not to get paid per placement or per temp, um. So it's a bit more money orientated and if you're driven by that, if you're sort of target driven and you're motivated by earnings, then that would be a great role to get into. For me I much preferred the service element of it and after working at Perth Enters, which gave me a really good insight into all the different kind of roles, I was much more aligned to the coordinating and working alongside partnering a business and filling roles with candidates and just really understanding a particular business and getting the right candidates for those roles within that business yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:It's obviously similar but different. Isn't it in-house to like a recruitment consultancy um on a high street? If someone's maybe listening to this, how would you identify? I guess if you've got any good tips on who would be a good recruitment consultant for you and your role, because you know there are good recruitment consultants out there that could help people yeah, so for are we talking about to work? As a candidate. Yeah, if you're a candidate okay, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So if I was a candidate, um, I think it's finding somebody that sort of specializes in the area that you want to work in, so they really understand the industry, um, and there's a bit of credibility behind that. If it's somebody that really understands the industry and the role that they're trying to fill, um, then that person is going to be the best person to work with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah so you moved in-house and you had quite a long time at um Marks and Spencer's. Is that right?
Speaker 2:yes, I was at Marks and Spencer's for seven years. So, um, marks and Spencer people think of as a well, it is a retailer, um, and you wouldn't necessarily think of it as having sort of engineering roles. But of course, behind all retailers they've got a huge supply chain and distribution um sort of business unit. And Marks and Spencer's built a distribution center within my local area, um, and it was almost like a business within a business. So within that distribution center they needed to employ their own engineers, their own warehouse operatives, their own operations managers, sort of everything involved with running a really busy distribution center. And so that's kind of how I started working with engineering roles and it was a really good foot in the door to engineering because I was working on site, I was able to be within that environment, learn about the different kit, all the different terminology, and it was just something that I found I really, really enjoyed. So, yeah, that's how I fell into engineering recruitment.
Speaker 1:Had you, yeah, you got a passion for engineering before that, no, but while I worked at P had you yeah, you got a passion for engineering before that.
Speaker 2:No, but while I worked at Pertemps, we did a massive range of roles, so we did everything from office roles, warehouse roles, driving all different kinds of things, and I always really enjoyed the roles that were probably not traditionally roles that women would do, and I don't know whether that's a part of my personality that likes to prove people wrong or, you know, challenge stereotypes, but I always found that I liked those kind of roles better. So, um, so, yeah, when, when I had the opportunity to work with engineers at Marks and Spencer, um, it was great to sort of learn about those things and I just found that I naturally really enjoyed working with those types of candidates and those types of roles was it still quite male orientated yes, and, and the industry is really male orientated.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of work that needs to be done at grassroots level to get more women into stem careers, um, so yeah, it is, it is, and that's one of my passions is to try and encourage more women into those roles um, but absolutely it is. It's still a male dominated sort of industry, for sure do you know what's interesting?
Speaker 1:so the other day I did a talk and I met two girls, two young ladies, that were um at Dyson University. So James Dyson, you know the um, the hoover person, and then now they do hair dryers and stuff. Yeah, so he runs, set up a university. You probably know this um, we're just for the listeners. They set up a university it was brilliant because they are doing, I think, a three or four year course, you getting a university degree and then working as well for Dyson and at the end of that um degree. But they're working through it. They obviously come away with a degree, they've got paid, they've got that experience and they have no university debt yeah, it's amazing and I see more and more um organizations are offering those types of degree apprenticeships.
Speaker 1:I know Rolls-Royce do degree apprenticeships as well, so that is a really, really good way for people to get in to the industry without, like you say, having having the debt attached to it yeah, I asked them as well about the representation of women on the course, because my husband did engineering at university and I think when he did it, um, in the early 2000s, there's like one girl on the course, yeah, there, yeah, there was 25%. They said yeah, so that's quite promising. That's really really promising.
Speaker 2:I think when I joined M&S, I think there was only one woman in the engineering department and the engineering department there was 80 people strong, so it was quite a big department and there was one, and then by the time I left, we'd managed to increase that to 10%, which was a great increase so yeah, still a lot more to be done, of course, but yeah, how did you increase it then from one to 10%, because there might be some organizations listening as well?
Speaker 2:So one of the biggest things I did so because I did recruitment for the whole site, so we'd have people coming in for roles for warehouse operatives, for example, particularly around peak so at Christmas they'd do temporary recruitment for warehouse operatives. And because I was involved in that, I could almost look at people's CVs and we had an entry level role within the engineering department there and we had an entry-level role within the engineering department there, um, and I would sort of identify from from people's CVs that actually you might really enjoy um a role within the engineering. We have got an entry-level role, we'll train you up and we've got a career pathway where you can become a multi-skilled engineer in the future if that's what you desire. Um.
Speaker 2:I can remember one in particular candidate. Her name was Alex and she'd done physics at you at a level um and she didn't really know what she wanted to do um, but she'd actually been in the engineering club at school. So when she came for her interview I was like, well, we've actually got these entry-level roles. So that was a really good way to sort of point people in the right direction and identify those that might be interested in those kind of careers, and sometimes it's getting them to think outside the box, because they may not know the opportunities that are out there. And yeah, I think there's a statistic, isn't there, that women are only going to apply for a job if they meet 100% of the criteria, whereas men will do it a really low percentage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like 60% yeah 60%.
Speaker 2:So yeah. So if a woman sees an advert and doesn't you know, doesn't think she hits all of that criteria, she might not apply for it. So as a recruiter, it's about finding those candidates and that talent and encouraging them to apply and yeah that's really good.
Speaker 1:What about with the hiring managers as well? How did you because that's sometimes what I find. Well, I get, obviously, clients come to me, they want to hire it's often engineers, um and it's but they'll make no allowances for what they need yes, on those roles, and sometimes like say it's actually about maybe reframing the role. So how did you get the buy-in from the hiring managers on what was actually really needed for certain positions?
Speaker 2:I think it's just um so as, as working recruitment, you get really adept at influencing as well. That's, I would say that's one of the biggest skills that you have to have as a recruiter. Um, and again, making them see the bigger picture. So sort of challenging um. You know, if we need this, this, why do we need this, why can't we do this? And it's about challenging them, um, and making them see that there are other words. Just because we've always done it this way doesn't mean it's always the right way. Um talking about the different sort of things that having a diverse workforce can bring to the table, different ways of thinking. Um. So, yeah, I think it's just conversation, education, making them think outside the box, bringing examples to the table of where it has worked in the past for other organizations, um, using your market intel that you get as a recruiter and telling them what other organizations do and how that works.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's really good advice. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:So then you went to boots yes, so then I went to boots and I did a year's contract at boots. Um, again, I was doing, um, some engineering recruitment there, but then also lots of other things that I'd never done before. So again, that gave me a really good insight into different job roles and things like that. I even did some buying roles there. I've never done anything like that before. Um and boots was a really it was, it was. It was a huge beast, obviously. Um, lots and lots of different roles. We had lots of volume as recruiters, um. So, yeah, that was.
Speaker 1:That was a year's maternity cover contract that I did there it was interesting because I know before we hit record, you said something because I said, oh, did you leave? Because you left at a similar time to when they ordered everyone into the office. Yes, time, and I know it was a contract, but yeah, was there any sort of thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:yes, so, um, so, as my contract was coming to an end, the announcement was made that they were going to bring everybody back into the office. Um, and for me, if, if I was there in a permanent role, that wouldn't have worked for me as a single mum. Um, you know, it's really important to me to have a hybrid role and I've been lucky that my roles prior to that have always been hybrid. Um, and, yeah, it just. It just would not have worked, and I do need that flexibility as a single mom, and I know a lot of people feel the same way when you, when that announcement was made, were you still actively recruiting for roles?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, how did that affect conversations with candidates? Did you notice candidates questioning it? Any dropouts?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, absolutely all of the above. Um, it did change some people's minds. Um, because people you know had entered into the process thinking the role that they were going for was a hybrid role, and then, um, obviously, when, when the announcement was made, again, it liked it didn't suit people's circumstances. You know lots of different reasons flexibility, location-wise somebody that was, you know, living a two-hour commute away could have committed to that for two or three days a week. But to commit to that five days a week, you know, it's just over time, it's just not doable. So, yeah, there were, there were lots of, lots of dropouts. Um, yeah, it was. It was a difficult time.
Speaker 1:I can imagine. Yeah, it's stupid. I wonder what you know. It's interesting. I don't know if you've got an opinion on this. You know this whole hybrid work from home, what you know. What's your opinion of it on a personal level, generally sort of working from home and hybrid, and so for me, um, I, for me, hybrid is is perfect.
Speaker 2:I, because I'm a people person, yeah, I wouldn't want to be at home five days a week.
Speaker 2:Um, I like to be around people, I like to be with my team. However, having the two days at home that I do now, um not having to commute for two days, um, I feel like, you know, I can start work earlier. Um, I can be at home for my children when they get in from school, um, which you know that means a lot to them, um, especially because they've only got one parent. So so, yeah, it does mean a lot that I can be present at least two days a week for them. Um, and yeah, having that flexibility is amazing. And also, as a recruiter, a lot of the work we do is calls, calling candidates and things like that, and in a busy office sometimes it's difficult to do that and if everybody's in in the building then there might not be rooms that you can go into and have those private conversations. So it's good to have a couple of days at home where you can know you can just bang out a load of calls to candidates in private and yeah yeah, a bit confidential, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:For me, best of both worlds, hybrid for sure so you talk us through Sangerbank because you've been there. What I'm trying to look at the dates on your LinkedIn it's not quite a year but it's coming up to it isn't it, it is.
Speaker 2:So I feel like St Gabin, I feel like I've come home almost with St Gabin. It was as my contract at Boots was coming to an end. I was looking for roles and it was really quiet at the beginning of this year for job opportunities in recruitment. And then, all of a sudden, the week before my contract was due to end, um, I got a call from investors in women about a role at Sankaban. Um, and I'd actually seen it on their LinkedIn anyway and and already wanted to apply for it. Um, because it ticked all of my boxes in terms of what they were looking for as a recruiter. They were looking for as a recruiter, they were looking for somebody that was going to specialize in engineering and the. The company itself met my um, all my values on sustainability and diversity and inclusion. So, yeah, it kind of ticked every box for me and, um, yeah, I was just just felt really lucky to have got the job oh, and they're a really nice team, aren't they?
Speaker 1:they?
Speaker 2:are a great team. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely fantastic team, and we're really close. We all bring something different to the table, um, but our you know our line manager's really supportive, um, and yeah, he's a great ally for women as well, which, which is something that's really important as a woman, um. So, yeah, it is a fantastic team to work in a fantastic organization overall so all this is actually?
Speaker 1:you might not know who sanga ban are, who are sanga ban, and just give us a bit of a brief overview and what you do.
Speaker 2:Okay, so St Gabin are a global organisation and we have lots of businesses within that organisation and we focus on sustainable construction. So we've got lots of different brands. Our biggest brand in the UK is probably British Gypsum and that's the one that people recognise the most. But you know we've got brands that deal with everything from timber roof frames to um plaster and plasterboard glass, um insulation, so anything and everything to do with sustainable construction. San cabana's probably got a brand for it I think as well.
Speaker 1:You know, when you like, walking along, and I always look at the manholes on the roads and I think they are well. Well, it's definitely Sangamon. I can't remember which brand it is and I'm like my gosh, it's all you know. You are literally everywhere and we did our house up the other year and all the stuff you know, the builders, bags and stuff like British chips and Sangamon, all the stuff that they were using. So I think everybody's house is probably made by Sankaban yes, uh, yeah, you'd be surprised.
Speaker 2:I mean, I didn't know until I joined the business. I didn't know that, um, you know all of those things. Things were Sankaban, and what's really good as a Sankaban employee is you can, um, you can go on a course. We've got an academy, it's called the build better academy, and anybody that joins the business can go and do a course, um, within the academy, on dry lining and plastering so so, yeah, so as a recruiter, that's probably nothing that we'd be able to get involved in elsewhere, and to have that opportunity was amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, don't ask me to come and skim you all because I wasn't great at it but it was really good to have that opportunity, yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually, you know, I was chatting to one of your colleagues, jigna Chowhan, about she'd done as well an apprenticeship with Sangoban and they'd paid for that, and she was saying that that's an opportunity as well for people within your organisation. So it's great if anyone wants you know. What's the beauty about a big organization like sangoban is you're not fixed necessarily in a role that you come in at in turn there's opportunities to move about and she'd done an apprenticeship and she was encouraging other people within your business to do apprenticeships as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's.
Speaker 2:She's had a great career story at sangoban and they have got a real big focus on learning and development and we've got a really good suite of learning materials and we also have a initiative called raise your hand.
Speaker 2:So people within the business, if they sort of fancy a career move and they might not know what that career move is or they do know what that is, but it could be something that's miles away from what they do now they can raise their hand and then it's discussed on a internal mobility call with the HR community and opportunities are then found for them to maybe do some work shadowing in a different area, to spend some time and sort of learn about different careers.
Speaker 2:Or there may be a job that's come up in a different part of the business that they would never know about. But actually we can then say, oh, you know, so-and-so's raised their hand because they might want to get into marketing and then somebody from a different brand will say well, actually I've just had an entry-level role in marketing become available. Let's see if they'd be interested in coming and having a chat or spending some time in the department. So there are lots of initiatives about progressing your career and looking at different things. Um and all yeah, just learning and development in total oh, brilliant, I mean.
Speaker 1:So what sort of roles do sangha band look for? Are they hiring for generally?
Speaker 2:so we have, um, if I talk about it in terms of recruitment partners, so we have my specialism is engineering and technical then we have somebody that deals with all the data roles it and data. We have a recruitment partner that deals with sales roles, because all of the brands have account managers and national sales teams. And we have a recruitment partner that deals with volume roles. So, um, some of the brands that have warehouses or the plant where you know manufacturing plants, they deal with operators, so that person deals with all of those volume type roles. Um, and yeah, so we've got lots of different types of roles. We also have all the head office functions as well, so things like payroll, finance, hr. So there's a real broad spectrum of roles. We've got a lot of scientists that come. We have people that come from sort of chemistry backgrounds and come work as process engineers, um, so there's a real broad spectrum of roles and where are you, where are the offices based?
Speaker 1:or you know the plants, or are they all over the?
Speaker 2:all over the place. So head office is based in East Leek, which is in Leicestershire. We're not far from Loughborough, um, but then we've got. We've got plants all over the country, mines all over the country, um, you know different different businesses under the umbrella are based, yeah, all over the UK.
Speaker 1:Um, you know different different businesses under the umbrella are based, yeah, all over the UK so it's definitely where can people go and have a look to see what roles you currently have available so if you go onto the Sankaban website um, so it's sankabancareerscom if you go and have a look on there and you can search by country and you can search under keywords.
Speaker 2:So if there's anything that you fancy, um, yeah, if you want to go and just pop a keyword into that search and it'll come up with anything relating to that. And we've also got a really good instagram page, um, sangoban careers uki is the handle, and on there we've got lots and lots of videos from different people within the organization that talk about their journey at Sankaban. So there's loads of stuff on there and it's really, you know, I had a look at a lot of those videos before I joined and it really sort of reinforced the fact that I wanted to come and work for the business.
Speaker 1:So I just wanted, before we move on to you and your experiences of the juggle I know we're going to. We spoke a little bit about that. Just keeping on to recruitment, I know that you all review CVs all day, every day. Is there any tip? Have you got any tips you could share with our listeners on how? What makes a good CV and how to make it stand out to recruit such self?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would definitely say attention to detail, um, and it kind of feels obvious, but it's unbelievable how many people send a CV in that they've maybe tailored to a role that they've applied for in the past and it's completely irrelevant to the one, and it will even say in the profile um, I'm really, you know, I'm looking for a new opportunity in finance and they've actually applied for an engineer role. So I just think really sort of that attention to detail, make sure that you're tailoring your CV to the right role and we don't need information. We still get a lot of cvs that have got personal information on that we don't need, such as, um, I don't know marital status and things like that. We don't need that um. So take all of that out.
Speaker 2:Um, I think for people that are maybe sort of new to the job market, um, and you feel like you might not have a lot in terms of work experience on there, think about all the things that you've done um, that have got transferable skills, so things that you know, groups that you've been in at school or college or university, volunteering, all of that kind of stuff. Um, you know, don't sell yourself short. You've probably got so much that you've done um, and just because it isn't in a traditional role, please do still include that, because that gives us a real insight into your skills and how you are as a person.
Speaker 1:That's really good advice. Actually it ties back to that lady that you met at Marks and Spencer's, that had done been in the engineering society at school and then yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:If she'd not put that on her, yeah, I probably wouldn't have spoken to her about that role. So just putting that detail on there, um, you know, it really gives us a little bit bit more to go on and think, actually, this person might be really good here, or they've got an interest in this, so let's see if they want to do that role.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so, moving on now to I know that you're a single parent you've got two children, um and I know that you've got some tips as well, so I know it'd be really helpful, I think, for your tips on how you, I guess, manage the juggle, how you manage you know any tips really that you could give our listeners on how to make their lives easier?
Speaker 2:yeah, I suppose for me, um, I, you know, I am a single mom, I've got two children, um, I don't have a huge support network, um a family, um, so the biggest, the biggest thing for me is is child care, um, so I, you know, very sort of early on I realized it was really important to build a village. And I didn't have one, I didn't have a traditional village around me. So to build a village, I didn't have one, I didn't have a traditional village around me. So to build a village, so you know, meet with mums at school and build those relationships. And I know, you know, not everybody's the same and some of these tips won't work for everybody, but for me this is what works. So, making friends with other mums at school and sort of, you know, sharing, sharing pickups. So I've got a really good friend at my son's nursery that if I can't get home in time, for whatever reason, um, she'll, she'll grab him for me and I'll pick him up, and the same, you know it works both ways and I'll do the same for her, um, and I also had that with my older son as well. So, you know, try and meet other mums that are in similar situations and sort of share the burden in terms of in terms of pickups and things like that. So that was really important.
Speaker 2:Um, something that I like doing as part of my role and it really helps build credibility as a recruiter, especially for engineering is to go and see the sites that you're recruiting for, and some of those sites are really sort of geographically spread and aren't doable in a day.
Speaker 2:So on occasion there's been times that I've had to sort of stay over, and this was the case at M&S as well. So, yeah, it was, you know, finding somebody again mums from school and building that village so that there was somebody that my child could, you know, stay with or for babysitting. It was really reaching out to the childcare provider. So my son's nursery, for example. I spoke to them and said do any of the staff here want to babysit and do sort of extra babysitting on the side? Um, and I found a really reliable babysitter that way. One of one of the one of the girls from my son's nursery babysits now for us as well, and that was great because it's somebody that he already knew. Yeah, somebody that I know has got all the right checks and I trust them, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:So looking at sort of your child care provider to see if they they want any additional babysitting, that's good advice, actually similar to my children's nursery, in that it wasn't the person that worked there, but her daughter does babysitting, yes, and then that's again someone you think I really trust that person. You know she had a 17 18 year old daughter that was happy to do the babysitting yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of. You know, those are the things that I've kind of done to give me a little bit of flexibility, um, if I need to work away. But you know it is important to say that that Sankaban would never expect me to do that and that's because I want to work away, but you know it is important to say that Sankoban would never expect me to do that, and that's because I want to do it and I want to go in and see those sites and I think it strengthens my position as a recruiter to be able to see all of that. But you know, there's never been any pressure to do that and you know it's great that you don't feel that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's generally advice, not necessarily related to sangram, but you know it's. Sometimes, I think, a lot of um, particularly women, feel um anxious about setting the boundaries with their managers about what they can and can't do, and then they have to leave work, say by a certain time, to meet nurse you pick up, etc. What advice would you give to them about, you know, managing those conversations um?
Speaker 2:I would always say so. For me, um, I would always make it clear that you know that I'm, that I'm gonna make the time up elsewhere. So so, yeah, I would never expect to um, sort of drop everything, go and then and not make the time up elsewhere and it's, I think, it's mutual trust, isn't it's mutual trust? So, um, you know organizations that are flexible and family friendly, they know they're going to get the best out of you, because you're going to want to give back what you're getting in terms of trust and and um, yeah, so so for me it would be you know, open conversation for sure, always communicate, um, but yeah, just just have just building that mutual trust with your employer, um, but I've been really lucky that I've always had sort of family-friendly employers that, yeah, to work for.
Speaker 1:Final question, because I know this is something that a lot of candidates feel quite anxious about. If somebody wants to work flexibly and my advice to them is actually apply for roles that not all roles say they offer flexible working, when in fact in fact they do so it might be worth still applying for full-time roles because they, you know, often can be more flexible. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely agree with that as well. That's always a conversation that you can have. Yeah, even after interview you can have that conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say that, so then they'll apply. But then there's this whole anxiousness about when do I approach that? I need flexible working, yeah, and how do?
Speaker 2:I approach that, I would. I would say, um, my opinion would be after an offer, because then you know you've you've got that role. You know you've got that role on your own merit. They want you, yeah. So if they want you, you know, are they going to um, hopefully accommodate what you need in terms of flexibility, um. So yeah, I mean, I've had a similar situation this week with the candidate um, she, she, um, she ideally wants a hybrid role. At the moment, it's working on site at one of our brands and the person currently in the role works on the site five days a week, um, so that's what the role's been advertised at. However, the candidate's like, well, I do hybrid at the moment and I'd really like, you know, I'd really like to work hybrid. And I said, well, let's put you forward, um, and then we can have that conversation later on down the line. So she's gone forward. They really like her. Um, we've had the conversation and they're absolutely open to it.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so you just never know.
Speaker 2:So it is always 100% always applying, always worth applying for me Always worth a shot.
Speaker 1:So remind us again where people can find roles at Sankoban.
Speaker 2:So it's the Sankoban Careers page. If you go to sankobancareerscom you can have a look at any careers that we've got and that's UK and globally as well. So if anybody fancies a move overseas've got lots of roles on there, um, for our businesses all around the world, and we've also got an amazing careers page on instagram and that's got lots of videos, lots of hints and tips about recruitment and lots of employee journeys.
Speaker 1:so the handle for that is sankabancareersuki on instagram brilliant and if anyone's got any questions um, particularly about engineering recruitment, are they all right to connect with you on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2:Yes, please do. If you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, that'd be fantastic.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Well, we'll put your link in the show notes. Thank you so much, Emily, for joining me today. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.