Designing a Career That Gives You More – Without Burning Out

In this special episode of Work It Like a Mum, we’re sharing the fourth session from our Give to Gain Summit, hosted in support of International Women’s Day.

In this empowering and practical conversation, career change specialist Kim Holland explores how women can design careers that give them more,  without leading to burnout.

This session dives into career clarity, flexibility, ambition, burnout, career pivots and the realities of balancing work and life during different seasons of life and motherhood.

What We Cover:

• Why the idea of “having it all” can lead to burnout
• How careers should flex during different life stages
• What “professional DNA” means and why it matters
• Understanding your values, motivators and strengths
• What flexibility at work really looks like
• How to confidently negotiate flexible working
• The importance of understanding your career capacity
• Practical strategies for career pivots and career redesign
• How to identify what is pushing or stopping you in your career

Key Takeaways:

• Careers are not a straight ladder — they shift throughout life
• Flexibility looks different for everyone
• Burnout often comes from trying to do everything at full capacity
• Understanding your professional DNA helps create more aligned career decisions
• Women need permission to redefine success during different seasons of life
• Negotiating flexibility should feel collaborative, not confrontational
• Small shifts can create meaningful change over time
• Clarity often comes from action, not overthinking

Why Listen:

If you’ve been feeling stuck, overwhelmed, unsure what you want next or struggling to balance ambition with life outside of work, this conversation will leave you feeling reassured, empowered and full of practical ideas to help you move forward with more clarity and confidence.

Show Links:

Connect with  Elizabeth Willetts on LinkedIn here

Connect with Kim on LinkedIn here 

Visit Kim’s website here 

Explore and download the full Women At Work Survey here

Transcript

Welcome And What To Expect

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids. And helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community. In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries of balance, the challenges they faced, and how they've overcome them. Find their own versions of success. Shy away from the real talk. Money, struggles, growth, lost boundaries and balance. We cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your oldest dreams. Or just survive Mondays. This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast. This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women. Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries. Ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity. Now back to the show. Hello

Meet Kim And Today’s Roadmap

SPEAKER_00 1:59

and welcome to the next session in our International Women's Day Summit where I'm speaking with the fabulous Kim Holland, who is going to be giving us some tips and tricks about how to design a career that gives you more without burning out. And I know that this is of interest to so many people because we get so many questions about this. And Kim always brings loads of actionable advice and practical activities to the table. So I know that this session is brilliant. So thank you so much to everyone that is watching today. And thank you most of all to Kim for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Thank you, Liz. It's great to be here. And thank you, everyone that has joined. So for those of you that don't know me, I'm Kim Holland. I am a career change specialist with 12 years' experience. So I previously worked with professional sports people, helping them transition from professional sport and into a new career. And now I specialise in helping parents who are feeling stuck or lost in their career. And I help them to discover a new career path that lights them up and kind of reignites that sense of purpose and motivation. So today we are going to be looking at how do you design a career that gives you more, it gives you what you need without leading to burnout. So the first thing we're going to tackle is this thing about can women really have it all? And we're actually going to flip it a bit and ask, do women really want it all? And what is the cost of having it all? So we'll get under the skin of that to start with, to set the scene. Then I want to talk about something that if you've been to any of my sessions before, you will know I believe is the most important thing in your career, and that is understanding your professional DNA. That is who you are at the core of it, not who you used to be, what you need out of your career and your life, and what you offer. So whether that's if you're applying for a job, what you can offer to the company, or what you can offer to your clients if you're setting up a business, but what can you offer? Then we will move on and we will look at the thing that everyone loves to talk about, and most people do need in this day and age in some form, and that is flexibility at work. So we'll be looking at what is flexibility? What do we mean when we're talking about that? And how do we get it? How do we build it into our careers? How do we ask for it from our employers? And then finally, I'm going to share with you my career crossroads speed strategy, which will allow you to pull together everything we've covered today and start turning it into some actionable steps to move you closer to where you really want to be. So, Liz, chip in if you if you have any as you're going along, by the way.

Rethinking “Having It All”

SPEAKER_01 5:15

So let's start with this having it all piece. Because when we're growing up, when we're going through school, maybe if you went to university, we are fed this notion that when you leave education, you will get a job. And then from there, you will climb the ladder and you'll keep getting more responsibility and more money. And it's going to keep going like that until the point at which you retire and you take your pension and you sail off into the sunset. But as we all know, that is not the reality of what we're facing today. Careers are so different to that now. And what we need to do is flip our thinking around that. We need to rewrite the narrative in our own heads because it is, it has been drilled into us for so long. And we need to view our careers as a sliding scale, not a continuous ladder. And we need to give ourselves the permission to slide that scale back and forth between caregiving and paid work, depending on the season. And when I talk about caregiving, I'm not just talking about parents here and children. It can be anything. It can be caregiving to older people in your family, it can be caregiving to yourself. You know, there might be times in your life and your career where you have to look after yourself a bit more, and work has to scale back. So whatever that caregiving looks like for you, there is a scale between caregiving and paid work that needs to slide because some seasons will allow or even require more time at home for whatever reason, and some will require more time at work, others will allow for big ambition, and others will need more family presence. And the reality is that most seasons that we go through will ask for both or all of those things, which is where it becomes difficult. But we need to notice the different proportions at which these are being asked for as we're moving through our careers.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I was sorry, I was gonna say, I think people feel they're failing a lot. This is resonating with me because they feel there's this expectation that we need to be giving it all at work and at home and physically you can't, and then people feel they're failing.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, and it's an expectation that is placed on us or we place on ourselves. I guess it's probably a mix of both. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the reality is do we really want it all? Do we want to be going at full pelt at work, full pelt at home? It ultimately that's what leads to burnout, isn't it? Yeah, that sounds exhausting. Yeah, exhausting. I don't think that is really what people want, but what they want is to be able to know how they can dial up their careers and dial them down as and when is needed throughout. So that's what we'll look at today. Um, so the first thing to do is acknowledge your capacity. And once you've acknowledged your capacity, so what is your capacity for work right now? And what is your capacity for what's going on outside of work? And then give yourself permission to allow that slider to move. So it's not you're on a career ladder and you're gonna jump off and that's it, you've thrown it out the window. Actually, you're just sliding it, and you need to give yourself permission to allow that to happen. So, how does this work? What I want you to do is to focus on this thing. So, whether if you are listening to me then thinking, oh, yeah, I think my slider does need to shift a bit, things aren't quite in the right place right now, but I don't know how to slide it, where to slide it. Just focus on two things. So this next shift needs to give you two things. It needs to firstly shift you further away from what you don't want, and it needs to shift you closer to what you do want. Nothing else. That is it. So it doesn't need to be the end goal. We're not trying to say we're gonna shift it and make everything perfect. We just want to move it further from what you don't want and closer to what you do want. And again, that it sounds simple, and the reason people struggle to do that and they keep their slider exactly where it is, is because most people are clear on what they're kind of motivated away from. So they know what's not working, but not many people are clear on what they are motivated towards. So, what do they want instead? If they don't want these things, what does it look like instead? So that's what we'll do.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

And I think also speaking to people, there's always a compromise.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, yeah, there is a compromise.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And some people don't like the compromise. I don't know if you find that with your clients. And there is always a bit of a price to pay if you're shifting things, and some people don't like that there's a price.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, and and there is, and there is always compromise, but ultimately, if you keep trying to do everything like we just said at full pelt, there's also compromise with that as well, in terms of what is that going to do to you, yeah, and your long-term you know, prospects. Ultimately, burnout is more likely if you're trying to do everything at full pelt. So I think there is a cost to everything. Yeah, it's getting clear on what are the bits that you're willing to compromise on at this point. It doesn't have to be compromised forever, and that's the important bit. So, how do we do that?

Find Your Professional DNA

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Your professional DNA underpins absolutely every career decision you make, whether you are wanting to make a change, a big change, um, maybe pivot completely, maybe it's just tweak things, um, whatever it is, this underpins everything that you are going to do in your career. So I break your professional DNA down into three bits. Firstly, who you are, otherwise known as your values. So these are your internal drivers. They make you you regardless of where you are. So you won't have a set of values at work and a set of values at home. These are just what's in you and they are developed throughout your childhood. They may be challenged and tweaked slightly as you get a bit older, but they generally are set and they make you who you are. They are unlikely to change. The second thing in your professional DNA is what you need. So, what do you need and what must be true for you to feel motivated and fulfilled? Now, this is what we're going to focus on in a minute because these are the things that are often circumstantial and can therefore change throughout your life and your career. So, when clients come to me and say that they want to make a change in their career, underneath it all normally sits a desire to get closer to what they now need, because that has changed from what they previously needed, and their career hasn't kept up with that. So, your motivators, what you need, these have will have changed. And if you're sitting there thinking, yeah, something isn't right in my career, something needs to shift. That slider we just spoke about definitely needs to move. It's likely because your motivators have changed. The third part of your professional DNA is what you can offer. So, not just your strengths and what you're good at, but also considering which ones of those things that you're good at do you also really enjoy? Like what really gets you going? What is it that you love about the things that you do at work that you're good at? Because that's what you then take to build your next step. There's no point building your next step purely on what you're good at if it's something you hate. So some people fall into a career that they end up then doing for a long time. Um, so they become very good at it, but ultimately they don't really enjoy the you know, nuts and bolts of what their role is. So focus on what you're good at and what you enjoy. So let's, as I said, focus for now on what you need and how do you get clear on this? So I want you to think about these three questions and maybe even um take a photo of this screen or jot these questions down because you'll probably want to come back to them later. But first of all, think about what role does your career play in your life? So at some point in your career, that may have been um financial, purely financial. I just work because I want money, because I want to do nice things. Maybe that's still the case, but maybe it's not. Maybe you want to go to work to give you your own purpose away from being a mum or whatever you've got going on outside of work. So have a think about what why is it that you want to go to work? Why is it that you want to have a job? Because there will be there will be reasons and they may well have changed. So just reflect on that, even scribble some things down whilst you're listening if things are popping to your head, but come back to that one later. Then consider what has gone well in your career so far. So, what were the moments that you've really enjoyed where you've seen success? And then take it one step further. So don't just settle on, yeah, I quite enjoyed it when I was working on that event. If I just find an event like that again, I think I'll be happy. No, think about push yourself. What would what would have made that role even better? So you're building a picture up what this role could look like for you, what this next step could look like for you. So, what's gone well and what would be even better if. And then thirdly, and the reason I put this last is because this is the bit that people often know the answer to more easily than the other two, and they reel off a whole list of all the things you want to let go of. So, what are the things that are not working for you now that if they if they disappeared, you would actually be happy doing what you're doing. So, this is your starting point to uncovering what it is you need out of your career.

What Flexibility Really Means

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Right, let's touch on this because some of you might be sat there thinking, this is all very well and good, Kim, but I don't really want to change what I'm doing. I'm happy doing what I'm doing, but if only they offered me some flexibility around it, I would just keep doing that. Now I would challenge you a little bit to think a bit deeper on that, because often when there is a strict no flexibility, it's because that role demands so much of you that there can't be flexibility offered there. You know, sometimes the hours have to be set for a certain reason. So then think about is that really the right role for you? If you look at going back to that slider, at this point in your career, if you're needing to dial up stuff that's going on outside of work, is a role that is rigid like that and does demand those things of you. There is often a reason why that's the case. And is that really the place that you want to be when you think about what you want out of work? For some people, it might be. You might be like, Yes, it is. So if it is, what is the flexibility that you are seeking? Because flexibility is so broad, and it could be flexible hours. So actually, do you need a starter to start and finish early or later to fit around school runs, for example? Do you want remote or hybrid working? So you're working from home some or all of the week. Maybe you're looking for reduced hours, part-time, four-day weeks, compressed hours. Um, maybe if you've got children, it's term time working, you need time off over the school holidays, otherwise, this just won't work for you. Is it schedule autonomy? So the freedom to be able to say, I'm just popping out for this appointment or this event. Or is it location and work style freedom? So you want to be able to actually pick up your phone and walk and talk for a meeting. You don't want to be tied to your desk. So, do you want the flexibility in how and where your work gets done? So, have a bit of a think about that. Because lots of people say they want flexibility, but let's get under that a bit more and look at what does flexibility mean to you? Which of these things would actually help your circumstances? Okay. And if you are one of those people there saying, Yeah, that is what I need, I just need flexibility, then you know, I won't burn out, I will get a good balance, I'll be happy. And you are thinking you're going to have to approach your employer about this, or maybe you're returning from maternity leave.

How To Negotiate Flexibility Well

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I want you to consider these four things when you're going into those negotiations. A negotiation at work about flexibility is nothing more than a conversation. So don't go in all guns blazing, ready for a fight. It's just a conversation. It's it is a conversation based on data and facts because they will have, I'm sure, examples where either it has or it hasn't worked for other people. And so have a look into that and try and get your own data and facts if you can. But it is a conversation, and you want this conversation to feel collaborative. So you want to work with them to solve the problem that you've got. So your problem might be that actually you're not getting to spend enough time with your daughter, but you love the job you're doing, you love the company, you love everything it stands for, you've worked really hard for this career, you don't want to make changes, but spending time with your daughter or seeing her a bit in the week is really important to you. So you present it to them as that, be honest with them, you know. This is the problem I have, this is how I'm feeling, and make sure you make it clear to them that you've thought about the impact it would have on the rest of the team, for example, or the people that work for you, and come up with a few solutions on that side of it when you are presenting this problem. Because what you want them to do is to leave the conversation feeling empowered to come back to you. With a solution. So if you're going in there saying, actually, what I need is to leave at three o'clock three days a week and to work from home one day a week. And they'll be like, whoa, uh, okay. And they're they're on the back foot. So put it to them as this is the problem, I'd love to work with you to solve it. Um, thirdly, don't ask for more than you want. So this is not a haggle. Don't think if your desired outcome is that you can work from home two days a week, don't at any point suggest to them, maybe can I just work from home four days a week, thinking that then they'll, you know, meet you halfway and you'll compromise on two days a week. You have to work with these people as long as you get this negotiation sorted out. You will be working with these people for a long time. And if you love your job and you love the company, you don't want to burn bridges at this point. So it isn't a haggle. You're being honest with them about where you're at. And if they come back to you with a solution that helps your situation, say yes, try it and see how it works. Don't think, okay, they've said I can work from home one day. I'm gonna just go back to them and say, any chance you can make it two days. Do you get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Like I get you what you're saying, because we I do as a recruiter, you make an you know, we'll get a candidate, we'll say, How much do you want? They might say 40,000. I'm just making up. And then you get them an offer at 40,000, and then they go, actually, I wanted 44, and it's really frustrating.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Yeah. And it puts a bad taste in your mouth, yeah. It really does.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And then it puts a bad taste in their um potentially, you know, their future employer as well, because they're like, Well, they said they wanted 40, you know, just making it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Yeah, exactly. So it's just it's not worth it, you know. It's not, you're not trying to get into a haggle with these people, you're trying to just solve a problem that you've got um in a way that's going to work for the team as well as yourself. So, yes, don't haggle, don't ask for more than you want. And finally, going into these conversations, do be clear in your mind, even if you're not saying this up front, like I said, to put them on the back foot, but be clear in your mind what your backstop is and what you'd be willing to walk away at. So um, if you know really you're not going to carry on in this role if you can't pick up your daughter two days a week, for example. Have that in your mind. And if you need to at some point share that with them, then do. But if you share that with them and they can't give you that, you need to be willing to walk away at that point. There is no point sharing that information. Them saying, I'm afraid we can't do that for X, Y, Z, and then you stay anyway. Because then your card is marked. They know that you were potentially trying to get out. They know they've they've, as I said before, felt that this was a haggle rather than a collaboration. So if you are going to throw in a threat at some point throughout the conversation, you have to action that if it comes to it. Otherwise, the relationship is really sour and you're ultimately staying and working for someone that you've then had this um awkward conversation with. So hopefully that is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Um really, you know what being to I don't know if it was on another slide, but this is what really works really well if I guess if you're in a job and you've proven yourself is really hard if you're trying to negotiate flexibility cold.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yes, and you probably see that more than I do, Liz, when you're helping people apply for jobs. Yeah. Would any of these steps uh do you think not apply if you're applying for a job rather than already?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

I think it's it's so much easier, isn't it, when you're well known. Yeah, to get that flexibility. And I think that is I don't think we can sugarcoat it. I think rewinding it back where you said, what can you offer? You're gonna be much more likely to get what you want if you just come across as like the best candidate. It's all about how you present your offer to somebody. And if you're irresistible to that organisation, then they're much more likely to give you what you want. Whether that's, you know, if it's money, it's probably more money. But if it's flexibility, there's going to be much more flex in what can be offered to you if you are really able to articulate your value.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah, definitely. And we I think we spoke about that in one of the other workshops together around those three professional DNA bits, the bit that the employer actually cares about, and the only bit they care about ultimately when they don't know you, is the what you can offer piece. And it's the bit that people sometimes don't give enough thought to. And that is the the bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Yeah. So I think that is something you've really got to work on. It's that what you can offer, having a good reputation in your market, in your industry, it's that network, it's having people know you, but know you for the right reasons. Yeah. And it's it's it's quite a lot of work, but once you've got that in place, then you are much more likely to get what you want.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, yeah. And it yeah, it's understanding what underpins it for you and what is it you're giving to them. Yeah. Um great. Right, let's pull it all together. So w whichever um whichever bit resonated with you from today, whether it was just negotiating flexibility and staying where you are, or whether you're thinking I need to probably do some small tweaks or something major needs to change here. I want to change direction. This document should help all of you because it's a really simple career crossroads speed strategy to get clear ultimately on where you want to get to, whether that's something big or small changes. And the beauty of using this is that you can start anywhere on this page and you can jump between the boxes. So there's no, it's not in an order for a reason, because ultimately, when you start

The Career Crossroads Speed Strategy

SPEAKER_01 28:44

filling in one box, it will trigger something else and you can jump somewhere else. So, for example, okay, if we start with where am I right now, that's where most people will find it easiest to start, and you put down as much detail as you can about your current circumstances. So you're working X days a week, um, you get on with your team, not so sure about your boss, you get paid X amount, so just as much as you can about your current circumstance, and then perhaps you'll move down to the bottom left. So, what is pushing me? So, if you're feeling like something needs to change, what is it that's pushing you to want to make a change? So then start thinking about those things, and then maybe you jump across to the bottom right. Okay, well, what's stopping me? So I know where I am right now, I know what's pushing me to make a change. So why am I not doing it? What is stopping me from making that change? Is it because I don't know what I do instead? Is it because I'm worried what people might think? Is it because I'm worried about the financial instability of making a change? So, what is it that's stopping you? Because when you're clear on what's stopping you, you can then start thinking about what you need to do about it. And ultimately, where we want to get to here is to fill in that top right-hand box, which is where do I want to get to? And I'm not meaning in that box, I'm not expecting that you would have a job title in there from just filling out this one piece of paper, you know. Oh, I want to be head of HR for a large corporate. I don't mean that. I mean describe what this next shift might look like. So, what is it going to give you that you're not getting already? And then you can move to that middle column and think about well, how do we bridge the gap between where I am right now and where I want to get to? What are the actions I need to take? So, what do I need to do? And how do I do it? That's a really important one. Lots of people stop at what do I need to do, but they're not clear on how they're going to do it. And then this one, Liz, I know you will agree with me. Who can help me? So, who in your network is closer to where you want to get to than you are, for example? What who can they introduce you to? Who can you chat to? It doesn't need to be your professional network either. This could be within your personal network, could be people in your family, it could be a coach like Liz or I, like it could be a professional to help you, but who could help you to get from where you are now to where you want to get to? So you see, in just one page here, you can really start to answer some of the really important questions that are going to get you moving in the right direction of where you want to be. Right. If you take away anything from today's session, I want it to be this. You have made the effort, you've taken the time out of your day to come to the session. That momentum is there. What I would really encourage you to do now is to take action to build on that momentum. Because ultimately, when we take action, one of two things happens. Either we get the result we want or the lesson we need. And let's face it, if we're feeling a bit stuck and we don't know which way to go, either of those things are invaluable. So I've put here three suggestions of actions you might like to take off the back of this workshop. The first one is to fill out your career crossroads speed strategy that I've just spoken about. That is the easiest point of entry. You've got that now. I will send out an email later today and I will link directly to that document so you can fill it in yourselves at home. So that's action one. If you think I've done things similar to that before, I need more, then option two is to complete a career MOT. So that gives you the space to map out where you are now. It then allows you to open up what's possible and explore your next opportunities. And then there's a section at the end that allows you to start taking inspired action to move closer to that. And the exciting thing about this career MOT is that when you send it to me, I will record a personalized video of me reviewing what's in your MOT and giving my feedback and insights on where you are now and where you're heading next. So normally that career MOT, including the video review, is £27, but I've just popped a little code on there today, saved seven for anyone that has attended the workshop. So if you want to scan that barcode, you can get direct access to the career MOT and then just use that code at checkout. Um and then for those who are maybe thinking they need to make a bigger shift and they want to change their direction, um, they're really stuck. Then I would encourage you to check out uh the details of my parent career pivot program. So in there, um, I give you ongoing one-to-one support over a span of two months. Um, it's support and accountability to discover a new career path that energizes you and makes time away from your family feel truly worthwhile. So there's limit, because that's a one-to-one, there are very limited spaces in that. Um, but yes, check that out. I'll include that as well in the email later today. Um, and if I'm not connected with some of you on uh social media, you can find me on LinkedIn, Kim Holland, or on Instagram at parent underscore career underscore pivot. Come say hi. Uh let me know that you've attended today, what you thought, anything you've taken away from it. I would love to hear from you. And thank you all for being here and thank you, Liz, for having me.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

No, thank you so much for joining us. It was brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. And don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.