Building Work That Works for You – The Rise of Female Entrepreneurship

In this special episode of Work It Like a Mum, we're sharing the sixth session from our Give to Gain Summit, hosted in support of International Women's Day.

In this inspiring and honest panel discussion, female founders and business leaders explore why more women are choosing entrepreneurship, what it really takes to build a sustainable business, and how creating work on your own terms can unlock greater flexibility, confidence and fulfilment.

Featuring founders from HR, finance, technology and community-building businesses, this conversation dives into the realities of self-employment, the challenges women face in traditional workplaces, and the opportunities that come from building businesses designed around real life.

What We Cover:

• Why more women are walking away from traditional employment
• The real reasons women start businesses
• Flexibility, freedom and the realities behind entrepreneurship
• The biggest risks founders face (and how to manage them)
• Building a business around your life, not the other way around
• Financial confidence, pricing and knowing your worth
• The challenges of isolation, resilience and self-belief
• Creating a sustainable business that can grow with you
• How AI and changing workplaces are reshaping opportunities
• Practical advice for women considering self-employment

Key Takeaways:

• Entrepreneurship is often about freedom, not escaping ambition
• Flexibility should support your life, not create new pressures
• Confidence grows through doing, not waiting until you're ready
• Financial planning is essential before making the leap
• Charging your worth is critical for long-term success
• Strong networks can help combat isolation and accelerate growth
• Values-led businesses can be both profitable and fulfilling
• Women are creating businesses that reflect real-life needs
• The future of work will demand adaptability, visibility and human connection
• Success isn't one-size-fits-all — define it on your own terms

Why Listen:

If you've ever wondered whether traditional employment is still right for you, dreamed about starting your own business, or wanted more flexibility and control over your working life, this conversation offers practical advice, honest experiences and inspiring insights from women who have successfully built businesses around their lives.

Show Links:

Connect with  Elizabeth Willetts on LinkedIn here

Visit Thread HR’s website here 

Visit Flockhere’s website here 

Visit Wainwright Consulting's website here 

Explore and download the full Women At Work Survey here

Boost your career with Investing in Women's Career Coaching! Get expert CV, interview, and LinkedIn guidance tailored for all career stages. Navigate transitions, discover strengths, and reach goals with our personalised approach. Book now for your dream job! Use 'workitlikeamum' for a 10% discount.

Transcript

Welcome And What To Expect

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life. I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community. In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business. They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success as children, their boundaries of balance, the challenges they face, and how to overcome them. Shy away from the real talk. Money struggles growth, boundaries of balance. We cover it all. Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TikTok, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school. So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your oldest dreams or just survive Mondays. This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast.

Flexible Jobs And Investing In Women

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers. Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you. They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries. Ready to find your perfect job? Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity. Now, back to the show.

Meet The Panel And Their Businesses

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Hello and welcome to our session today about building work that works for you and the rise of female entrepreneurship. Um, I'm really, really excited because we've got a great panel here of absolute female entrepreneur powerhouses that all run phenomenal businesses. Actually, I'm gonna let them all introduce their businesses um individually because I probably can't do justice to the amazing businesses that they've all set up, they all run, they've all grown from the ground up. But this panel is something I'm really, really passionate about, really excited about about building work that works for you, the rise of female entrepreneurship and why it's so important. So, Amanda, tell us about your brilliant business.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Thanks, Elizabeth. Um, I proudly run ThreadHR and we provide fractional people partners, typically to founder-led businesses when their first need for HR arises. And we work with a mix of industries, but we are a little bit hospitality biased because that's what I love. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Danny, what's your business and how long have you been running your business for?

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Um, fairly similar um uh tilt there. So we are fractional finance directors. So my background's in big corporates, and I set up to work with uh founders to provide them finance support on a part-time basis. I've got a team of 10 now doing that across Yorkshire into the Northeast, and I also run some courses to help people set up fractional finance businesses as well. Um, just gave me so much back, but we'll talk about that more, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And Danielle, I know you run multiple businesses, which is brilliant. So tell us a little bit about your businesses and what you do and how long you've been an entrepreneur for.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, so I've been kind of building businesses for the last eight years now. Um, and my current main business is Flock Here, so it's an app that we've developed that connects you with places to work from and people to work with. So it's mainly for kind of solo founders, um people that work for themselves that want to kind of get out and meet other people and not kind of be so isolated working from home five days a week. Um, and then I also run uh another couple of communities, the No Raise Club, which is for people who are bootstrapping or unsure about raising, um, and mum's building companies, so kind of changing the narrative about what it means to be a parent who's building a business. Um, so yeah, kind of a community builder at heart, really.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Okay, you love that, but you'll do such you're brilliant at it, and obviously that's your forte. So, yeah, we've got some questions um to our wonderful panel. As we're watching this, please do let us know actually in the comments if you can hear us all okay. Um, and any questions you have about entrepreneurship, starting a business, running a business, please pop them in the comments because you've got some amazing women here. Um, and you know, I'm sure they'll be happy to give you your advice, um, their advice.

Why Corporate Stops Working For Women

SPEAKER_02 4:47

So, Danielle, um, in your experience, we're talking about women moving away from corporate, what finally pushes women to say that the system, the corporate system, doesn't work for them anymore?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, I think um, I mean, I my experience has kind of led me to start my own my own business, but I think for many people it's it's not a lack of ambition or you know where we want to get to in our careers, it's just the system isn't built for a lot of working women, working mums, um, especially which I noticed in my experience. So I I think it can sometimes be a build-up of things, lack of flexibility, um, gender pay gap, um, you know, sexism in the workplace, lots of things that kind of that goes on. But for me, it was um becoming pregnant, um, wanting to go back part-time, but having my flexible working request denied. Um, I think it's like I think there's a stat like 50% of women now who put in a flexible working request, it's denied, which is crazy. And when I'm crazy, because there's new legislation that's coming, and it's insane. I know Anna Whitehouse is doing is doing a lot of work of this with the um with the flex appeal. And what this happened to me like nine nearly 10 years ago now, actually. And I remember thinking I was the only one, and oh my god, this is horrendous. A company, you know, a company can't treat you like this, and obviously, then starting to build my own business and meeting other women who are in a similar position of they had kids, they had all this amaz all these amazing skills and talents, um, but their employers just were saying, you know, it's it's full-time or nothing. So they would they were losing, and I think again the the stat is crazy is billions of pounds is lost for women who leave the workforce um because you know their employers don't help with flexibility. So I do I do think it is, you know, there are a lot of redundancies, there are a lot of women who leave because of children, because of childcare and things, but I think there are so many, so many issues, and it can be a build-up of lots of things that kind of just amount to them saying, you know what, enough is enough. I'm gonna take my experience and skills and actually go and do this somewhere else and do it for myself and where you know I can have that autonomy.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

So was it you? Was it that single moment then when they said no to your flexible working request, or is there a slow realization that actually it was better to do something for yourself than to stay in, you know, trying to fit into that mold?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I've never never been one of those people that was very ambitious, or you know, I want to like climb the career ladder. And you know, I was very comfortable and happy in my job and very content, and it wasn't until I actually became pregnant I remember just having this feeling like I know I'm gonna do something, I don't know what it is. Maybe it was like crazy pregnancy hormones, and all my colleagues were like, What is she talking about? Um, but I think it was a kind of straw that broke the camel's back when I did hammer my notice and kind of half not really wanting to come back, but obviously, and when they said no, I was thinking that right, that's it. Now I'm this is this is my opportunity to actually do something that I want to do for me and use the skills that I've I've built up. So um yeah, I think it was it was the best, and and now obviously looking back, it was the best decision. But at the time it's you know, it's you're you're really angry about it, and you know, it's it's really unfair. But they lose lots of lots of women because of the same reasons.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

So I know a lot of female business owners that like you say that were forced out of corporate, um, or felt, you know, felt forced out of corporate um and then decided to do their own thing.

Lifestyle Choice Or Values Led Path

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Um Danny, there's often an assumption that female entrepreneurship is a lifestyle choice or a side hustle trend. Do you see it that way, or do you think there's something deeper going on?

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Um, I would say that's a what is a lifestyle choice, I guess. I think that's kind of got quite negative connotations, hasn't it, in in in the sort of narrative around it being, you know, small, um not very ambitious, maybe just covering the bills, sort of thing. And um obviously I see a lot of founders who are absolutely um killing it in terms of their performance and very much wouldn't describe it that way. However, they've still made some choices around lifestyle. And um, I think there is obviously the whole piece around you know, working hours and and and seeing the kids, particularly if you're if you're a mum in the workplace. And I know for me that was there were two elements to me wanting to get out of the sort of corporate um race. And part of it was seeing my children. I worked incredibly hard where I was in my last corporate role, and I didn't see them much at all. Uh too much was passing me by. But then the other piece for me was really about about values and about wanting to run a business in the way I would like to do business in a way that felt very aligned to my values. So I think you know, lifestyle choice can mean a lot of different things, can't it? But I've made a choice that I'm gonna work in line with my values and see how successful I can be that way. And turns out you you, you know, you really, really can be. So um I think for some people it's a side hustle. There's nothing wrong with that, is there? You know, we've all got to kind of supplement our income sometimes, and it sometimes it's a really nice, safe way of trying things out as well. Um yeah, certainly there's um there's a lot of very talented ladies out there, and the ones who are deciding by choice they want to kind of grow and scale something are doing a very good job of that as well. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

What do you think it says about traditional employment and about corporate if so many talented women are opting out, Danny?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

I think it's the rigid rigidity, isn't it? It's very rigid um in in some places, you know. It's it's as Danielle's alluded to, um perhaps there's only one real uh model in some places, maybe not as much flexibility as we'd need. And um, I think there's also sometimes a poor culture point as well.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Absolutely. Um and uh this is a question that I think will speak to a lot of entrepreneurs.

The Real Pressures Behind Flexibility

SPEAKER_02 10:33

We talk about freedom and flexibility, but there are so many real pressures that women don't always see before they start a business. What are they?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

I think I think the big one is probably around the flexibility itself and what that actually means. And that all depends around the type of business you're running, if it's a uh, you know, a product, a technology that you've created, or if it's a service provision, uh, like Danny and mine's businesses are, what does that actually look like and what's the need for that? And I think as uh business owners, we all need to be really clear around what are our non-negotiables, what are our values, like Danny said, what do I absolutely want to be there for? And then connecting that with what that means to the client needs and how you're gonna paper that over and make that work. So it's around being very intentional in the setup with your SLAs and everything. But actually, I remember when it was just me on my own when I first started out nearly five years ago now, thinking, oh gosh, how do I actually take a holiday? Because I'm on retained support, and that thought sort of hadn't crossed my mind naively. But funnily enough, I'd never run a business before, so it wasn't something that I'd initially thought about. So being very intentional with that setup, so you can have the flexibility that you can and should have, but it's going into it, I think, with your eyes open, and in the main, people don't mind. When I started, I had my girls at nursery school age and I girly Thursdays with them because I didn't have childcare, and it wasn't an issue because I set that out right from the start, so it can be done, just be intentional and mindful with it is the big one I would say. Um, and I think the other one that's a bit of a bit of a surprise is people aren't that great at paying their bills. Uh so I'm very intentional as well about how you set up for billing, and again, it's all going to depend on what your business is and that provision, but not leaving yourself exposed. Can you get any money up front? Because cash flow for all businesses, no matter what it is, it is a really big challenge. And it's not nice chasing invoices and clients and so on. So I'd be intentional about that too. And I often find as well, it's the larger clients that are actually the bigger the business, the lower they are to pay. Absolutely. And the small business owners get it, and they're the best, you know, they're the best. You're so right on those big big companies.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

On holiday, on the holiday, I know you've got a team now, so you I'm hoping you can take holiday now. Maybe you couldn't, but there might be people watching this that are just you know, not just um, but you know, are starting out and maybe working on their own. How did you take take holiday then when you were? I know because we did our podcast when you were a freelancer, and yeah, definitely check that out. Actually, if you haven't checked out that podcast, check it out with Amanda. It's like a 101 how to be a successful freelancer and you talk a bit about um payment books, holidays. I remember that being a big thing for me. It's like, oh my gosh, how do you take a holiday? And I wasn't very good at it. How did you take yours?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, I was lucky that I'd managed to find some people in my network. Um, so I used uh what we'd call an associate. So I had I paid someone to be on call for that period that I was away, if it was a week or so, and then I'll just have sensible conversations with the clients. We um we work in time at ThreadHR, so it's super transparent. So just had really honest conversations as to whether we could still give that retained time or not, and what that looked like. I did actually take a three-week holiday to Australia fairly soon into all of this because my stepbrother got married. Um, and for that, uh again, the associates saved the day. In reality, we don't get emergency calls all the time in HR, even across several clients. Um, so that is a workable uh solution. But yeah, obviously the benefit of having a team now and superb people partners, and again, we're very intentional. That's gonna be a key word for me and my business, I think, around how we're set up and how we support each other, that we've always got quality cover for clients.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Were there any other surprises that you found when you made the leap into entrepreneurship or speaking to your clients that have made the leap into entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

You know, yeah, I think probably where wearing all the hats uh when you start out. And you know, you might have heard that expression, but actually, what's the reality of thinking about how you market and go and talk to your clients and working out your PL and your cash uh forecast and working out, you know, how do you want to do this, what insurances should you have in place? That you know, it was an amazing learning curve for sure. And I felt very lucky because I did a business degree several years ago, so I felt I had a good sense of running a business in general and with my prior work experience. But even then, it has been such a learning curve. So I think it suits people that love learning, really super curious to go out and you know speak to people and get advice from others, but yeah, don't underestimate the wearing of all the hats when it's just you on your own to start.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

No, absolutely. I've got a question for you all, but I'll start with you, Danielle. If autonomy is the biggest gain for starting and running your own business, what has been the biggest risk?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Um I think I mean there are a lot of risks, and I think you know, we do need to be, I think there's a lot out there at the moment online on the internet about you know, everyone needs to quit their jobs and start their own business. And it seems to be this narrative of how you know how easy it is. If you've got an idea, just start a business. And I think you know, obviously it is a lot harder than that, and there are a lot of risks you need to take. And I think for a lot of people, especially women, if they are starting up their own business, um, you know, a lot of people have the backing and support potentially of a partner who could then, you know, say, okay, you've you know you've got six to twelve months to try and make this work and bring in some extra incomes. And if you don't have that, then you are taking a huge risk on, you know, which some people might say is probably a better risk

Biggest Risks And Mindset Shifts

SPEAKER_00 16:20

to take, because then it's kind of all or nothing. You have to make this work. But you know, obviously the financial uncertainty is I would say the main risk, especially if you're leaving employment. But for me, I think the it's the isolation. Um, that was the biggest risk for me, is going from working with lots of people and in a team to just being on my own. And I think a lot of that with Amanda comes down to wearing all of the hats, but also just having all of the thoughts in your head all of the time, and you've got nobody else to kind of bounce ideas off of or talk to if you're going through a problem. So actually, isolation for me, especially if you're someone that's used to has used to kind of being in teams and used to being around people, that that isolation um and losing that kind of community and support structure, I think is actually quite a big risk, especially with when it comes to your mental health. So the financial is the kind of important one, of course, but you've got to also remember how you're going to deal with running a business on your own and dealing with the isolation.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, that's really good. Danny, what do you think's the biggest risk for people thinking about starting their own business?

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Um, well, obviously, because I help quite a lot of people start a fractional finance career. I do see this a lot, and um, not finding the work, I mean, it's obviously tied to the financial, it's it's not um being able to actually find the work quick enough to kind of sustain this. And it's really important to have a runway, isn't it, or a you know, supportive uh partner um as you start off on this journey because there's nothing worse than seeing the pressure in someone's eyes in a way if they're on a sales call. I think I would describe this risk as um not maybe not changing your mindset, you know, from going from being an employee to being a business owner, and you have to be to Amanda's point, you know, willing to learn, willing to throw yourself into learning to sell, to market, to building a personal brand and all those things that especially for the finance people I work with are like super alien and for some people just so daunting that they can't do it, and for others with our support, they can push through it. But yeah, I think that mindset change and just you know, really coming to terms with the fact you are gonna have to be in sales from now on is um is important.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah, absolutely. What about you, Amanda?

SPEAKER_01 18:30

What do you think is the biggest risk that entrepreneurs face? I think it was so it just goes back to Danielle's part, I really resonate with that isolation one. And I remember I had like a former colleague that was doing a similar thing, and we would book in like a water cooler phone call to talk with each other, and there are obviously lots of uh networks, as Danielle definitely knows, and communities, and yeah, getting involved with those, I couldn't recommend more. And I was a bit slow to doing that. I definitely felt in isolation. In terms of sort of the risk for me, I think there was one point. So my first quarter in 2024 was my quietest, and I'm not very good when I'm bored, I'll be honest. Yeah, that's when I'm most likely to get into trouble, and when it's quiet, like Danny said to you, I think you know you can start to doubt yourself and what you're doing. And I think being able to, you know, stand firm that you're doing the right thing and hang in there. And actually, 2024 is the year that I finished with two employees because things really did come good. But being able to maintain that vava voom and that momentum when things are difficult or when they are slow and not suiting how you're used to working, I think is is something really important just to be mindful of. But again, just a caveat: you can only do that if you know that you've got that financial runway that Danielle talked about. So all these things are you know massively intertwined. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Thank you. Um so Amanda, we talk about you know passion and purpose when starting a business, but what does a sustainable business actually require?

SPEAKER_01 20:04

What does it actually look like? I think perhaps unsurprisingly, um, the first thing I wanted to talk about here was the people. And you know, if you've heard me on any of Elizabeth's podcasts, I rave about my team. Uh, you know, Haley, who was my first hire through the Investing in Women Jobs Board, has been absolutely sensational. Um, and hiring uh the right people in the right way to do the right work is critical. And Haley was quite unusual in some respects in terms of the job that I offered. It was two days a sorry, it was two hours a day, five days a week, because I needed someone that could turn stuff around quickly. So where Danielle was talking about uh and Danny around the rigidity

Building A Sustainable Business Model

SPEAKER_01 20:43

of big companies, like why are we thinking we have to do things like the same way? We absolutely don't. This very unusual 10-hour a week contract, we had so much interest, and Haley was sensational. And I can't imagine having you know missed her if I wasn't thinking differently and doing that. So hiring intentionally, again, is going to be a massive one for your sustainability. The other bit loops back to what I was saying there about that really quiet quarter in 2024, around as quickly as possible, getting real clarity on the sort of work you enjoy doing and who you want to do it with. There's absolutely times where you just need to take the money that's in front of you, and that's the reality of life. But the sooner that you can get into a place where you're really clear about what you do, that unleashes your magic and your joy, and you inevitably are better at what you're doing. And that is, you know, it's a huge thing for sustainability, and again feeds into the team, more hiring and becomes self perpetuating. And I think you know, across our team at ThreadHR, I would say we've got a very intentional, there's that word again, uh culture that is sustainable because of how we've bedded it in right from the start.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

What about from a finance perspective, Dan? Danny, what are the non-negotiables really when you want a business to sustain itself and be here in the long term?

SPEAKER_03 22:09

This might sound brutal, but I'm putting my finance director hat on now. Yeah, so put it on it's about making it pay, isn't it? Like obviously, yeah, we we're very intentional about who we work with. We really want to work with values-led people, but you have to know your worth, know your numbers, work out the real I mean it's services for us, but so working out the real rate you should be charging when you factor out things that you maybe had before, like your pension contributions that were coming from your company and your bonuses and all the other extra things. So it's been really clear about what you know you need your rates to be and things and how much work you need to be doing from the off so that you know you can kind of get to where you need to get to to you know sustain the lifestyle and hopefully better that that you had before. Um, and I I we're not just a female thing, but a lot of us are very giving. And I do meet a lot of people who've maybe taken on a bit too much pro bono stuff, or they're maybe, you know, they're they're having conversations with people, maybe doing a bit of work with them and they're not charging for it. And you can do some of that. And I have a pro bono charity um um board uh placement, but you know, ultimately you've got to set up to succeed financially, otherwise the rest of it will fail.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

And I think as women we get asked, I mean, I know obviously a lot of us doing this as well today, but a lot of us we get asked to do a lot for free as well. And you know, I've been asked to do keynote speeches, all sorts, and not uh had any compensation for that. And I wonder if that's also a female uh thing as well. Um just a little bit, just a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you find that, Danny, a lot with businesses that don't actually know the cost, the cost of doing businesses?

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Yeah, I think so. Then the more complex a business gets, obviously, the harder it gets to really know exactly what you should be charging ultimately to be kind of getting first of all the gross margin that you need, which is after you're all your direct costs, and then ultimately how much overheads do you have to cover and what should you be aiming for for a bottom line profit? You know, it does get more and more important to really understand your numbers and the kind of uh levers you've got around those to kind of um to be able to run your business in a sustainable way. It's one of those things is finance where people think they should they're almost embarrassed that they don't know it well. And I really find that puzzling because like I wouldn't know HR inside out, you know, like you why would you? All right. Um it's it's really kind of a a case of um being a bit scared of the numbers sometimes and almost thinking, oh you know, that kind of I hated maths, I was no good at math, sort of and actually some of it, some of it's really not that hard to understand if it's kind of explained in a nice, jargon-free, approachable way, and we're kind of all about that. Um because I think it, you know, if if you can crack understanding the finances of your business, everything becomes a lot less stressful, actually.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

I guess you know what you're aiming for then. It actually probably simplifies it. Absolutely does, yeah. Yeah, you can strip you know the unnecessary out. Um, Danny, if women are building businesses because of traditional employment doesn't flex enough, and at the same time, we've got another panel running running at this time as well. Um, we're seeing AI fundamentally reshape roles and even eliminate jobs. What do you think this says about the future of employment?

SPEAKER_03 25:21

I saw this question, I thought, oh, this was hard. Um, I think I don't think the human element is gonna go away. I don't think the human touch and the human insight and the nuances that you can't get out of um um, you know, um a Claude or a Chat GPT, I don't think they'll go away. But what I think it will mean is two things. Firstly, we're gonna have to embrace those tools, we're gonna have to learn about them, we're gonna have to be able to be really efficient in our work. And perhaps, you know, I'm seeing a place where our FDs perhaps end up working with quite a lot more clients in their portfolio because they can manage that, they can do more work in the time uh available. Um, but also I think personal brands are gonna become even more important because people need a reason to to gravitate towards you. So um, those are my kind of high-level thoughts. It's a bit of a big one, though, is that question? It's a big question.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Yeah, Danielle, what do you have anything you'd like to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 26:19

So I had to put on mute because there was a dog walking past. Yeah, co-working space, and then someone's got a dog and it was just barking.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I don't know if it's always sounds like a nice co-working space. But yeah, I just wondered what you think, because obviously you work with a lot of women um in particular, and then you know, we know speaking to I I know speaking to a lot of um women in tech that actually was women's jobs that are particularly vulnerable to AI as well. What do you think it tells us about the future of employment?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, and I think Danny, what you said, I think there's gonna be lots

AI And The Future Of Employment

SPEAKER_00 26:56

of um, and I can't remember who was that the guy that runs that business basically that just got rid of like half of his staff because he knew actually. I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Was that the Twitter co-founder?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

I can't remember one of the big tech companies. Yeah, I think it's the new star. Deep store, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

He founded Twitter, and then he's since let you know when it's sold left, and then he founded another one.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, so I do think, and I do work with a lot of um, and and when I was building the app, I was really, really hoping to to kind of find a female um developer and builder, and that was a lot harder than I actually first first realized, um, and kind of getting into that whole world of tech and tech startups, and you know, it is predominantly men. Um, and I've had conversations with them about you know how when I first built the app in 2023, the code that went into it was really complex, and I need a developer who was really you know experience in it, whereas now they're using AI for so many more things, and so his time is is less needed or her time is less needed on building it. So I I do think it is worrying for a lot of lot of people, especially for women, because they are usually the again, you know, if you get a developer that's then suddenly says I'm pregnant, that's obviously gonna be, you know, potentially um, you know, worrying for for her. So I do think it is a worrying time. However, I don't think that you're always gonna with what I do, you're always, always, always gonna need that human element and people want human connection. Um, and I have been to a lot of events, a lot of AI AI events where that it always comes down to that will never go away. So it was although there is a lot of uncertainty, I do think you know you're you're never gonna replace that, you're never gonna replace the actual empathy and and human nature of of us. So I do think that you know it's not all gonna completely we're gonna be run by robots, but um yeah interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Yeah, um Danielle, when women build work in a business that works for them, what do they gain beyond income?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah, I really like this actually because I think obviously the money side of things is what sustains you and what keeps your business going. But for me, I think I mean there's you know autonomy over your own time, um, deciding when you work, where you work from, um, control over your diary of your day if you you want to start at 10am and or work at 9 p.m. after the kids have gone to bed, um, and that kind of alignment between and work and life. But for me, I think it's a real confidence thing and what you learn and how you develop as a as a human, um, as a person, and maybe the things that um you weren't able to um see when you were in employment or um weren't able to kind of um kind of look into and and grow more because when I was younger, when I was at school, um I always used to think that that was never possible for me. I never had any kind of role models in that world. And to me, my business studies was taught by a man, a white man in a suit. Um, and that's kind of what a business looked like to me. So I think just having the confidence to and and gaining confidence in actually wearing all of the hats, like we say, and learning our numbers and learning what cash flow is, and that all helps us gain confidence in so many other areas of our life that that doesn't that isn't just about running a business. So I that I think for me has been the biggest thing. Someone who never thought thought I would be doing this is now actually I can do this, and this is possible for other women as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Yeah, it makes you feel good about yourself as well. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Proud of yourself, I think.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Yeah, really proud, yeah. What does society I know? Yeah, and I think I think it's nice to have more see more women proud of themselves. What does society gain when um women create

Confidence Community And Wider Impact

SPEAKER_02 30:51

businesses as well that reflect real life, Danielle?

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Oh, so many things, so many things. Um I think I mean it's more businesses, I think, with women is built around real needs, um, because we understand what kind of what goes into things. The flexible work models, I think, is huge. So a lot of women who are building businesses, you know, their policies that they put in place is a lot more um helpful for people that want flexible working. Um stronger local economics, and I think and the stat, I think, and I was trying to find it, I think it's the UK loses 28 billion, I think, um for women that leave the workforce because they don't get their flexible working um request um accepted or the lack of flexibility or childcare. So that 28 billion that is lost is then going back into the economy and then more because women are starting and growing their own businesses and hiring more women. Um so I think women women are leaving because the work doesn't work for them but and the economy loses talent, but then they're gonna it's kind of coming back in because they're then building these amazing businesses and um it's it's better for the world all around, I think.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Yeah, absolutely. Um Amanda, question for you if workplaces genuinely worked for women, do you think fewer would choose entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Such an interesting question. And I think even before uh you know, before we think about people getting into the workplaces, you know, my situation was exactly like Danielle's. Like I did uh business at A-Level, I did business at university, self-employment was never talked about. I didn't grow up knowing people that were self-employed, and I think that's why it's taken me so long. I mean, I'm five years into my journey now, and I'm still in shock that I am self-employed because it's just always felt like this real other world. So I think the UK as a whole has got a whole lot of work to do to you know help young people, particularly coming into the workforce, as well as us already in it, to actually go into it and consider it as a viable option because it really is, as we've all proven. And then in terms of the workplaces themselves, you know, there's there's loads of wonderful things about being an entrepreneur and running your own business, and there's loads of really difficult bits, and there's a reality that um, you know, it's not going to be for everyone. But wouldn't it be great if we could get to a place where it was a more intentional word of the day, more intentional option, rather than rather than something that women particularly felt forced into because of this ridiculous rigidity that we're seeing in so many businesses? It should be a genuine option that people can consider and be supported to do well. Like what, you know, obviously I could talk all day about how workplaces need to change how they go about things. Um, and we're starting to do it, you know, one company at a time through Thread HR. But wowie, wouldn't it be better if we could have it as an intentional option for people um rather than you know being forced into it?

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Absolutely. So final question for me. And if anyone has any questions before we wrap that you would like to ask our amazing panel, please pop them in the comments. Now's your chance to ask some of these brilliant entrepreneurs. Um, but um, Danny, we will start with you. For a woman questioning whether traditional employment still fits, what's the first question she should ask herself before starting her own business?

SPEAKER_03 34:20

And I think she should make sure she's got a financial runway, uh, a way that can take the pressure off that build so that it can be yeah, built out in a way where you might actually end up with something close to the result you were going for, and the type of people and the types of businesses you wanting to work with say, as opposed to I'm gonna take whatever I can get, and then you might end up building something that kind of also much better than what you had before. How long should that financial runway be? Well, that's it's a difficult one, depends, doesn't it, on your own um circumstances and uh commitments. But I would say six months would be ideal if you can because you yeah, it can take time to to build um your messaging and your branding and to kind of get that sales process working for you. So if you can, it's helpful, it takes the pressure off, makes the selling easier.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Danielle, what would what would be the first question you think someone should ask themselves before leaping into entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_00 35:14

I think um it kind of shouldn't be about what business you want to start or if you're ready. I think it should be what kind of life do you want, um, and what kind of work or business would support that. So I think businesses should should be designed around your life and not the other way around. Um obviously that's an ideal situation, but I think when you're first starting, you should really consider that and really think about how you want your life to look. Um, so I think be really clear on your your time capacity, how how much time you actually have to build a business and put in, you know, as well as your income needs

Practical Questions From The Audience

SPEAKER_00 35:49

and your priorities, you know, childcare, care and responsibilities. But I think what you said again, Amanda, is it's you've got to start intentionally, not just in reaction to frustration or something that's happened. So if you can be intentional about it rather than reactive and actually kind of sit and have a proper plan. So I think get really clear on the life that you want to build and then design your work around that.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Brilliant. Um, and Amanda, what would you like to add to that question?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

I think my answer is a little bit cheeky actually, because I think my answer is actually around uh other people. And the reason I say this is if you listen back to previous podcasts, uh I uh describe how I'm incredibly risk-averse. And after my second kid, I didn't go back to work because the opportunities had come to give it give it a shot and different external factors going on and so on. Like, there's no way me five years ago was confident to go and do it. But if you can speak to people that really know you, and we've all got those really honest friends and family that will see things in you that maybe are hard to see in yourself, and I would speak to those people around, you know, can you know, can I do this? Because you know, my husband was a big factor in confidence. He was like, Yeah, of course. I was like, Really?

unknown 37:02

Really?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Uh so yeah, that's my cheeky little um answer to that question, which isn't strictly our answering, uh Elizabeth. So I hope you'll forgive me. I think the other thing I was thinking about perhaps a bit more directly, which links with what Danielle was saying, is there's a concept called the glass floor, which is where people stay in jobs much longer than they should, because the risk of going to another company that might say they're flexible and might say all the right things about what you want, but you don't know the reality until you get in there. If you're feeling in that situation like you're stuck, then I would say, you know, really look at everything that we've said and talked about. Don't be stuck, do it a different way. Um, so yeah, I think I was thinking about that as well in response to your question. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

So we've had a few questions. So Harsha has asked, How do you find your first client? I'm gonna go to you, Amanda, for this one, if that's all right.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Yes, so I was on my second maternity leave when I started doing my first contract. Um, and I got my first client through um actually a recruiter that I knew knew really well. He knew a business that needed some HR work doing, and that was that first connection. But again, partly because I was on maternity leave, I was also able to really hammer LinkedIn uh with my connections, not in a cold calling way. Thread HR will never be a cold calling way. I think I'll make me feel sick, cold calling people if I'm honest. Um, but getting in touch with people that I knew and had a connection to, to be like, hey, I'm doing this, here's my USP, used to be an operator, now I'm in HR, I really get your business. Let me know if you think of anything. And you know, I was lucky because we've talked about financial runway, but I also had a bit of a time runway because I was probably doing that for six months in a startup to when my youngest then went to nursery. Um, so that helped as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Love that. Um we've got a question from Louise. Um, I'm gonna ask this one to you, um, Danielle. What obstacles did you have to overcome that you didn't expect?

SPEAKER_00 39:07

I didn't expect. Um, I mean, I suppose again, you don't expect the unexpected. You kind of don't, even though you it's like having children, you can read all the books, you can you can do business at school, but when you're actually in it, you're like, oh my god. Um so you're kind of you're learning on the job all of the time. But I think for me, it's the it's the ability, it's the resilience you need to have um to get yourself back up again when things things don't go to plan. So I think for me, the the the amount of obstacles that you overcome, there are a lot of them. So it's about not giving up at the first one um or the second one or the third one or the fourth one because the more the more you kind of learn and grow, you're gonna be making mistakes, things are gonna happen along the way. So for me, it's that it's building that resilience and having that confidence and that belief that what you are building is going to make a difference. Um, and just yeah, I think that I didn't kind of again, no one to teaches you this, you have to experience it as you go along. So just keep that. If you know what you're doing is good, if you've got people that are paying you, people that believe in what you're building, just keep going and just keep pushing.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

I think lovely. Um, we've got a question here for you, Danny. Fractional senior positions can seem quite on trend at the moment. How do you set yourself apart from the competition when you were starting out?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

It's a big one. I think it's becoming increasingly busy in the space, so I think it's really important to start with um your values and what you want like your working life, your working relationships to look like, similar to what Danielle was saying about kind of really thinking that through what you want to build before you build it. And then I think um using that to then build your brand to think about how you even build, you know, design your logo, what colours you use, what font you use, what language you use on LinkedIn, and kind of make it all really hang together and feel really coherent as you. And we don't have to share everything on LinkedIn and other places, but you know, it's really nice to give a bit of yourself so people can build a relationship hook with you and think, well, actually, I need the fractional FD, but I really like that one because she also likes getting outdoors or whatever it happens to be. I think that piece is really important, and we teach that early in our course because it it's what seems to separate the people from the ones that find work quickly and the ones that don't.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Love that. Um, Amanda, Amy has asked, how do you and I'm asking you because I know you went with a little um you know from a HR perspective, how do you protect your business? Um, for example, engagement letters, disclaimers, and insurance, and are there any good sources of for this type of information?

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Yeah, really good question. And I guess there's practical things, so then there's the reality to consider. So, you know, you definitely need uh your insurances, but in terms of protecting your business, you know, you can get a contract drafted. We were talking about AI, you know, you can get a contract drafted quite easily. What you need to consider though is even with contracts, if someone doesn't pay you, are you then going to pursue it in reality? So you can put in uh you know that documentation and structure, but just be aware that that isn't foolproof and that there are consequences if people don't do that and the decisions that you've got to make at that point. I lost about 1500 quid quite early doors from someone not paying, and it was a you know very painful letter, but the reality was it wasn't feasible or sensible to go through small claims court to try and get it. Um, so yeah, there's stuff that can be done like that. Um, trademarks are very easy to protect, you know. The identity that Danny just talked about, if that's very specific to you, that's worth looking into. Um, yeah, insurances to some extent will be specific to your industry. In um, in my realm, for example, and like the big providers, we don't insure against tribunals, don't like that way of working, but we're insured for negligence advice. So depending on what your business is, you just need to look into it. Um, cyber security is an insurance that we're being asked about a lot at the moment. So, another one to be aware of in terms of you know, if you're looking after data, do also register with ICO, the information commissioner's office, if you're going to be a data processor.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Lovely, that is brilliant advice. And I've got a final question for you all. I'm gonna ask it for you all. This is a brilliant one from Faye. Um we will start with you, Danielle. What one thing would you not do again? You're like only one. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Well, you've mentioned trademark. For me, I had a very, very long trademark legal battle that lasted about 20 months. Um, I thought I did all the right things first of all, but it turned out I didn't. So I think I would definitely look into if if you're going to next if you're going to start a business, make sure you get a trademark on the name. Don't do not be stung like I was because it was a lot of money and time and stress. So yeah, I think protect your assets and your IP and really kind of drill down on that if that is something that you are looking to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

Really good advice. Danny, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 44:04

I'm trying to think we're on the spot. I think the biggest one for me, which has been an intentional change I've made recently, has been to concentrate on my local geographic area. And that seems a bit counterintuitive to what you'd expect if you want to expand and if you want to, you know, in this global day and age. But um, what I found was I'm very interested in how running the business feels to me. I really want it to feel right and feel good. And the more I geographically spread my myself in terms of the FD services, the more I felt like I couldn't look after the client from afar and I couldn't look after the FD from afar, and that felt off to me. Um, and actually, you know, we've rode back from that now. We're concentrating on Yorkshire in the Northeast and we're we're growing really well. And I think that would not necessarily have been an obvious thing to have done from the outset, especially when I had the opportunity through training other FDs across the country on my course to pick up work elsewhere, but it just didn't feel right. So I think I would not go against my gut instinct again.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Nice, and Amanda, finally, you what would be the one thing you wouldn't do again?

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Apart from using all that money in an ideal world, uh

Lessons Learned And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 45:10

it's linked with money, it is charging too little. Well, when I started off, I was grateful to be doing work for people. I divided my salary into a day rate, and it was so daft. And again, I talk about it on our other podcasts that we've done, but holy mackerel, and you know, I think there's a lot of emotion linked in with uh, you know, what we charge. As women, we're probably worse for it than you know, charging what we are worth and undervaluing ourselves, which is a whole other conversation, but flipping it, like that was such a daft move. And anyone I talk to now about setting up on their own, a big part of it is being like, you know, you need to do the research and understand exactly where you're playing. Because also, from a marketing perspective, if you're too cheap, like there's a reason why things are too cheap. So you might not be doing yourself any favors that end either. So don't do it, everyone. If you're gonna go out on your own, charge what you're worth and then some.

SPEAKER_02 46:07

I love that. Brilliant of I know that Danny will definitely agree with that as well. But thank you so much. That was absolutely brilliant. Um, I'm guessing everybody can connect with you all on LinkedIn as well if they want uh if they want to do that. Um, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much to everyone that has joined. The panel has asked questions as well. Really, really appreciate that. We've also got the QR code in the corner which you um can use to download our Women at Work Survey as well. Over 500 of you completed that. So make sure you download that as well. Thank you so much, ladies, for joining me today. I've really, really enjoyed our chat.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Have a good weekend.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Bye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe. And don't forget to share the link with a friend. If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willet and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode. You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.